May 2017
Episode 12 — Memorial Day Special: The Story of Floyd W. Olsen
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SUMMARY: One Vietnam Veteran still unaccounted for is remembered by his sister and niece in this Memorial Day Special.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: Just a few days ago, on May 18th of 2017 a funeral took place in Arlington National Cemetery. This funeral, with full military honors, including a flyover, a 21 gun-salute, and the playing of taps, was for Vietnam War veteran Colonel William Edward Campbell. Colonel Campbell was a member of the United States Air Force and was a “Nite Owl”; a group of pilots who flew bombing missions during the night from Thailand into Laos. On one of those flights in January 1969, Colonel Campbell was shot down. For ten years he was listed as Missing In Action and then his status was changed to Killed In Action — Body Not Recovered. That would be his classification until December 2016 when DNA discovered in a single bone and a single tooth would positively identify Colonel Campbell. And then last week, after nearly 50 years these remains along with a military uniform, a silver star, and a purple heart were finally laid to rest. It was reported that the urn containing his wife’s ashes would rest on top of the uniform in the casket.
According to the Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency, at the end of the Vietnam War there were 2,646 Americans unaccounted for. Today over 1,000 of those have been recovered, which means that 1,611 are still missing. If you drive across America you’ll find plenty of towns where the total population is around 1,611. Imagine one of those entire towns just missing. Now imagine the families of those 1,611 individuals; the uncertainty they must feel, the loss, the wondering, the sleepless nights. On today’s show, the final one of our series and our Memorial Day Special, we’ll devote the entire episode to one of those missing individuals and you’ll hear from some of his family. Who’s family? Well, it happens to be my family.
Welcome to the Memorial Day Special of the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. In the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people whose lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy, and stories of reconciliation. You’ve heard about the magnetic force that tugged and pulled some of our soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country. And today you’ll learn about one helicopter pilot who has yet to come home; my wife’s uncle Lieutenant Colonel Floyd W. Olsen.
But before we jump into today’s episode, allow me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the place to go to purchase the documentary film By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on your copy of By War & By God. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and reconciliation.
So today’s show is a little different and it’s a little more personal. Today you’ll be hearing from my mother-in-law and my wife. My mother-in-law, Sandy Sturch, is Floyd Olsen’s sister and my wife, Karen, is Floyd’s niece. Two of today’s interviews were recorded a few years back in my nice quiet basement, but one was recorded along China Beach on one of the trips I made to Vietnam to gather material for the film. So today’s episode is The Floyd Olsen Story, but who was, or, for reasons you’ll learn later, perhaps I should say, who is Floyd Olsen? Let’s find out…
Chapter: In The Beginning…
Kent C. Williamson: We’ll begin with my mother-in-law, Sandy Sturch…
Sandy Sturch: Floyd grew up with model airplanes in his room and always really wanted to be a flyer. We were World War II kids and always admired people that were involved in the war. When he was at Wheaton College he took ROTC which meant that when he graduated from college he was eligible to go into the Army, in fact was obligated to go into the Army, as a Commissioned Officer.
Kent C. Williamson: At that time Vietnam was smoldering. The war had yet to take it’s toll on the American people.
Sandy Sturch: Whatever our purposes were, we we’re going to go in and do and get out and I wasn’t much concerned about it. Until my brother was sent to Vietnam. I wasn’t terribly concerned about the first tour of duty. Many of our armed forces went to Vietnam to serve for a year and got back okay. But then as the war progressed and the years went on the word seemed to be you might go for your first tour and get back okay but not as many people went for their second tour and came back. So when he went the second go round, he was an Army pilot; fixed-wing first time, helicopter search and rescue second time. And in charge of helicopter maintenance throughout South Vietnam, that was really is primary duty. So I was much more concerned when he left the second time. But I still was convinced he would come back. Mainly because so many people were praying for him. And I really believed that when we asked the Lord to keep him safe that he would come back. I was confident. Some friends, very close friends begged him not to go the second time, because casualties were running very high by now. But he went back in 1967. And was getting close to the end of that tour of duty. Was engaged to be married. And in April of 1968 he went out on a mission to rescue a downed marine helicopter. And they were shot down by enemy fire.
Chapter: The Engagement…
Sandy Sturch: I mentioned Floyd was engaged to be married. And I had never met his fiancé. And so I had written to this girl in Illinois, Marilyn Hayes was her name, and introduced myself by letter. And Floyd wanted me to give her a ring on his behalf qnd he had bought a diamond just before he was sent to a tough area. And he said, “I’m uneasy holding on to this diamond. I’m sending it to you tonight, because in the morning I have to to leave and I don’t want to take this with me”. And I got this envelope with a little bulge in it. And I opened it up and here was this note from Floyd saying, “I know you think I’m crazy for sending this to you this way but I’m afraid to take it with me”. And so here was this, I think it was a carat diamond that he had wrapped in a little piece of tissue paper. That was it. He said I’ll tell you later what to do with it. So later he wrote and describe how you want me to have the diamond set. And so I did that and then invited Marilyn to Houston. It was right around Easter time. He sent me a note to give her, sealed in envelope of course, to give her with the ring and I was to hide it in the guest room. And let her go in there and find it and Floyd said, “as soon as she sees it she’ll scream. And she did. But it was fun. It was a lot of fun. I loved Marilyn as soon as I met her. We just had a great relationship instantly and we went out looking for a wedding dress. And she bought a wedding dress that same weekend. And when she flew back to Illinois, about the same time Floyd went out on his mission from which he never returned. And she waited three years for Floyd before she gave up.
Chapter: That Dreaded Day…
Sandy Sturch: That dreaded day came when my mother saw a man in a uniform walk up her sidewalk to her house. And by then people knew that when they saw someone coming to the home in a uniform it was not good news. So she received notification that Floyd had been shot down on April 21st, the year was 1968. The communications said that it appeared that the plane had exploded in the air and there could not have been survivors. It took two weeks to even get to the wreckage and only the tail section was found. And the rotor blades that were in the river near Hong Ha village in the central highlands of Vietnam. Because of lack of evidence of bodies. All six men aboard aircraft were listed as missing in action. When a full search could be conducted they found the dog tag of one of the men aboard the plane. And that was the only evidence that there was.
Chapter: He Left The Day I Was Born…
Karen Williamson: What I know about Floyd Olsen? Since I was a little girl I knew that he left to go to Vietnam the day that I was born. And that he never came back and that no one knew what exactly had happened to him. And to this day nobody has found him.
Kent C. Williamson: This is my wife, Karen Williamson
Karen Williamson: My sister and I used to go visit our grandmother. We would scrounge through the basement. And we dug up his old baseball glove and his trumpet. And every summer we’d pull those out and we’d try to play music on his trumpet or make a lot of noise with it. And we’d go across the street from our grandmother’s house and we’d play catch with his baseball gloves and his baseballs. And their were odds and ends throughout the basement. Trunks with a lot of his Army stuff that had been sent back from the War. And his yearbooks from Wheaton Central and Wheaton college that had his pictures in it. Our grandmother had a room at the front of her house that was her office and his pictures were all over the room and his flag was there. So he was very much present around the house and in our grandmother’s things and in conversation.
Chapter: Learning The News…
Karen Williamson: He was flying on a rescue mission. And that the weather was poor. And somewhere along the way the people that he was in communication with during that flight could no longer hear him and could not identify his location. And no one ever heard from him again.
Sandy Sturch: My mother was just beside herself. She was so distraught she couldn’t talk. My grandmother called me in Houston and said, “your brother has been shot down”. I don’t know that she new term Missing In Action at that point. She might have, I guess that was probably part of the report. They they could not say he was dead because I didn’t know that, but he was missing. So then I got on a plane and I flew to Wheaton to be with her.
Kent C. Williamson: When you hung up the phone, what was going through your mind?
Sandy Sturch: Well, of course disbelief. Always that first reaction of “this cannot be so”. My second thought was, “but wait a minute, get a hold of yourself, he’s just missing. He’s just missing. And you’ve been praying all the time that the Lord would take care of him. He can’t be dead. He’s just, he’s really missing. They will find him.” And I think that was my mother’s thought to.
Kent C. Williamson: So you flew up to see your mom in Wheaton? Tell me a little about that…
Sandy Sturch: Well it was as if he had died. All of our friends, we’d lived in Wheaton for many years, and people were just flocking to the house and consoling us. And in fact I remember feeling a little bit angry that everybody was talking as though he had been killed. Almost assuming he had been killed, acting like he had been killed. When I wanted to shake everybody and say well now wait a minute wait a minute you’re you’re going to fast we don’t know that he’s dead he may still be alive he’s probably alive. They just haven’t found. He just probably in the jungle somewhere. I do remember early on, maybe within a year or so after he was shot down, we were sent a picture. And we were asked does this look like – my mother was asked does this look like your son? And it was of someone in a POW camp. And we both looked at the photograph and of course it was not a good quality photograph. And I really thought it looked an awful lot like Floyd. If, you know, if they were asking me to make – “is this your brother?” I probably would’ve said, “it is.” And I think my mother would’ve said it’s her son. But not long after that we received a letter saying that this was not Floyd. That it was identified as somebody else. And that closed that case.
Chapter: Getting Involved…
Sandy Sturch: About 1970-71 I became involved in National League of Families of Prisoners Missing in Southeast Asia. The effort of that group was to bring public awareness of the POW-MIA situation to the American people. I don’t think anyone really wanted to believe that we left men over there. But people close to the situation many people felt that indeed we left a lot of men behind.
Karen Williamson: I remember when I was four or five years old that mom was going to appear on the news…
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Karen Williamson.
Karen Williamson: We all gathered around the television and we watched Mom answer questions about the POW-MIA movement. I have no idea what the subject was or the politics of it, but she appeared on the news and I thought that was pretty impressive.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: I found an old newspaper clipping from the Corpus Cristi Times where Karen and her family lived and where Sandy was involved with the POW/MIA movement as the founder of the local chapter. In the Friday, August 18th, 1972 edition at the bottom of page 2A there was a section called Action Line where readers would submit questions like these: “At what address can I reach Roger Staubach of the Dallas Cowboys?”, “What address is the local Civil Liberties Union?” And this one, “where can we get information on men whose names are listed on POW-MIA bracelets?” The newspaper would work to get answers to these questions and in the case of the bracelets they responded with a helpful mailing address to VIVA (Voices In Vital America) the organization that provided the bracelets and a follow up quote by Karen’s Mom explaining the $2.50 cost per bracelet. She said…
Sandy Sturch (actress): “This office keeps 50 cents of the $2.50 for office expenses, postage, etc. Two dollars is returned to VIVA. Of this 80 cents is their cost for making one bracelet. They use the rest to publish POW-MIA literature, pamphlets, bumper stickers, mailing stickers and for their office expenses and postage. They send POW-MIA literature to all the various POW-MIA offices in the country free of charge.”
Karen Williamson: I do remember as a four or five year old that I had a bracelet that I got from the POW-MIA office where mom spent some time, and I do remember that she was at that office a good bit of the time. And there was a big box that was just full of silver bracelets that had various peoples names. But I had one and it was a little bitty bracelet that had his name on it and it said, “niece.”
Sandy Sturch: My hope really had continued that when the list of POW’s came out my brother’s name would be on it. But it was not. And when that happened, I think that’s when I really came to grips with the fact that he had died in the crash. My mother who was a widow also had to come to grips with that. It was very, very difficult, because with an MIA situation you don’t have a body to bury. When there’s no evidence whatsoever you assume and yet you want to hope that maybe somehow, some way your loved one could still be alive. So there is this lack of closure and always wondering what really did happen.
Karen Williamson: At the ten year point, our family traveled from Texas up to Wheaton. I remember many of his friends and family gathered and there was a memorial service. I didn’t, again, understand the ins and outs of really what it was about. I was ten. That seemed to kind of close that chapter for the time.
Chapter: I Owe My Life To Floyd…
Sandy Sturch: Floyd’s area of expertise was helicopter repair. When helicopters went down if Floyd’s crew could get to it and lift it out of there then they would salvage the plane. And of course in that plane there was equipment there were records and so forth that may be helpful to the enemy. And a Marine helicopter had gone down. Floyd’s crew, they were on their way to try to get to that plane. This was not a flight that he should have taken. He was not scheduled to do this. I had heard from someone, not terribly long after the crash, we got a letter saying that the one who was supposed to take that flight had been out the night before drinking and had a hangover. And was not able to take it. I’ve since heard from that man — recently. And this man wrote and said, “I should, I’m the one who should of taken that flight and and Floyd took it for me.” And so he said, “I, I owe my life to him.” Which was very moving for me to read.
Chapter: 1998…
Sandy Sturch: I received a phone call one day from a very close friend of my brothers Dennis Stuessi. And out of the blue Dennis called and said that he and some other friends of Floyd’s—military men—had gone to the crash site and had searched for evidence. And in the process of doing this they noticed that in this village, which was very near the crash, Hong Ha village, there was absolutely no medical help for the people who live there. There was a very old medical clinic that had been abandoned. Where you could see through the boards and in that building there was one half bottle of quinine and that was all there was, and one glass vile. That was the total of their medical care. And so they felt that they wanted to do something in memory of Floyd. And so they built a clinic, a medical clinic, but it’s not a fancy clinic in American terms—very basic. And they were about to complete the clinic when Dennis called me and he said they planned to dedicate it on the thirtieth anniversary of the crash—April 21st 1998. And asked if I wanted to go to Vietnam with them to dedicate that clinic. And of course I was thrilled beyond belief that anything like this could have been done. When our small group of people went to Hong Ha village to dedicate the clinic all the people in the village came out to greet us. They had seen the clinic being built. We’re very excited about it. About six thousand people now have some degree of medical care because of that clinic. I cut the ribbon in the ceremony which was attended by villagers and of course our small group. But also communist, some communist leaders in that area. And as we went into the clinic to look at it, what grabbed me, gripped me the most of anything was the fact that there was my brother’s picture hanging on the wall with his testimony in English on one side and his testimony in Vietnamese on the other side of the picture. And I thought isn’t this incredible that in 1998 my brother’s picture would hang on the wall of any structure in a communist country. That’s when things came together for me I thought, “this makes sense. This makes sense this. This is my picture of how God works.” I learned early as a child and so did Floyd we memorized Romans 8:28—“For all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purpose.” And so I kept looking for the purpose in this. Why would God have allowed this to happen and I knew, I knew that God had a plan. We drove beyond the clinic down a hill to a clearing that a couple of the elderly Vietnamese men in the village had said is where the helicopter came down. And they stood outside our circle and we gathered and we had prayer there. Larry Ward drew me aside and he said in my ear he said, “I think one or maybe both of these two men were the ones who actually shot your brother down.” And this really moved me and instead of feeling resentment I just felt a great love and compassion for them. I had my picture taken with these men and I just decided that I would start praying for these people and these men in particular. And in the ministry that this hospital might become to them. To me this was closure, not that I’d still thought Floyd was alive, but I thought this makes sense of his death. And knowing Floyd in his Christian commitment, he would feel that if, somehow, someway this medical clinic could speak of Christ’s love to these people, this is how God wanted to use this tragic accident or event in the war, that there were there would be good reason for that to happen. So we left and I thought, “this is wonderful.” You know, this really made me feel that Floyd’s life was not lost in vain, there was some purpose to this, that God would use this for good. My mother, who never got over the grief of losing her only son, she had dementia very serious, very severely. And she hadn’t been able to talk, she had been able to connect with me whatsoever. I’m not sure she even knew who I was at that point, but when I learned about our going to Vietnam for the dedication I sat down in front of her and took her hands in mine and I told her what was about to happen. And she looked at me and her eyes got just as bright as I’ve never seen her, and that blank vacant look vanished and she said, “Isn’t that wonderful!” And at that point she had not spoken a word in a long time. So we got back from the trip and I gave her the report of the trip. And then that was in April and she died in August.
I had a marker placed not far from the clinic, it’s really on the other side of the river. I had the marker put there with an inscription—Floyd’s name and basic information about his crash. I had that put there, not because I’m convinced that Floyd is dead or because indeed Floyd is not buried there, but I wanted to mark the spot, so to speak. I wanted to mark the area so that anyone else who would ever come to that area might come upon that marker and know that there was an American who gave his life there, whether he was instantly killed, or gave his life in the other sense of never being able to return to his country. That that would mark the spot that something important had happened there and that the love of Floyd for the Vietnamese people and my subsequent love for the Vietnamese people, for this country, and overarching all of this our love for Jesus Christ, our desire to serve him, that this whole story—there’s a marker that that speaks to that.
Chapter: The Live Sighting Reports…
Sandy Sturch: Not long after that, I don’t remember how long it was, we started getting live sighting reports of Floyd. To this time we’ve received about twenty five of those reports. A couple of years ago I was told in Washington that there is more activity of Floyd’s case than any other MIA. There have been many searches for him. But on the live sighting reports every report ended the same that they did not feel that the witness was credible. Usually the witness wanted money in exchange for information, which our government would not pay. And so they would not verify any of these live sighting reports. But forty years have past and I’m still getting live sighting reports of Floyd being held in Laos. And so I simply don’t know. Because of the nature of the reports and the persistence of these reports through all of these years with no one ever having been paid money for the information, I think it is possible that Floyd is alive. Whether or not I’ll ever see him again I still don’t know. The current live sighting reports say that Floyd is being held in a small village of Laos. In an area of villages where there are reportedly forty two Americans being held. That he was with another man whose name was Larry Stevens. They were raising pigs and chickens and sticky rice for their survival. Floyd had married and this actually was in a report much, much earlier that he had married and had a couple of children. That Floyd had said that he wanted to come back to the United States, but only if he could bring his family.
Karen Williamson: Mom mentioned that she had been getting more live sighting reports from the Army. And she said she had been getting them all along but that she was a little bit caught off guard with their wording in one of the more recent reports. It mentioned that after all these years that he thought maybe now would be a time that he could, he might be able to come home. And it was the first time I really ever considered that possibly the Army could be wrong about his status. Or just the question of, “what if?” What if he really hadn’t died? What if they really didn’t have it right? What if they were wrong? And that immediately captured me and I couldn’t, couldn’t let that go.
Chapter: Interesting Developments…
Kent C. Williamson: In the early to mid 2000’s, our family began attending the annual League of Family meetings in Washington, D.C. At one of the meetings the name Larry Stevens came up…
Sandy Sturch: Now the significant thing about Larry Stevens is that at this meeting in Washington a mother went to the microphone to address the military and government leaders, in particular JPAC, the organization that conducts the that the search teams. At any rate a picture of her son had been passed across the border from Laos into Vietnam. I don’t recall to whom the picture was given, but it made its way to Washington where forensics experts verified that this was indeed a picture of her son. Now the live sighting report I had just received within two or three weeks of this meeting was that Larry Stevens was being held with my brother Floyd Olsen. That gave me the most hope. There was another report: one man aboard Floyd’s plane, his last name was Mackendance. He was positively identified by one of our return POW’s as having been held with him in the POW camp for a period of time then he was transferred on. Now if that is true. Then it would mean that someone did indeed survive that crash. So if one survived the crash then others could have survived crash. I can’t imagine how he has survived if he is alive, but yet I know Floyd and I know his background and I know how solid and stable Floyd is. I know of his deep faith in Christ. And if this was part of God’s purpose to plant Floyd in Laos for these years then if that is why God created Floyd and the role that the Lord had planned for Floyd, I, I do not question that. I do not question that. So through the years of wrestling with this and looking at the what if’s, maybe he’s alive, maybe he didn’t survive, does he really have a family, if he has a family that means I have a sister-in-law. If he has children that means I have nieces or nephews. I don’t know, I don’t know, but the bottom line is we received as believers and as followers of Jesus Christ we simply receive what the Lord has given us and we trust His sovereignty. And we trust His goodness and His mercy and His grace to bring something good out of the evil that that war perpetuated. That’s where I am at the moment. I’m, I am resigned to accepting and being thankful for however the Lord has used Floyd’s life. If Floyd was killed instantly, as the original report said, then the fact that we have not been permitted to know for sure has indeed resulted in a lot of good things; a lot of interaction of people who have come together to try to do something in God’s name in the Lord’s name for the good of the Vietnamese people and that’s, that’s what we’re about—that’s mission. That is the call of the Church. That is my call. I can have hope and I can be grateful and I can have joy in the midst of suffering.
Chapter: What If He Is Alive?
Kent C. Williamson: How would you feel if you found out he was alive?
Karen Williamson: I can’t imagine finding out he was alive. There was always the hope. I can’t imagine it really being true. I remember when I was in junior high school, it must have been related to something we were studying in school, but he, I had sort of this fantasy that he would just show up. He would return miraculously and life would just go on as it had, but now we would have Floyd again. I mean even as an eleven year old I remember just hoping and wishing that, that he would just come back. I can’t imagine what that would feel like, after hoping for so long. I hope that if he were to come back that he could enjoy the remainder of his life getting to know his family, living on American soil.
Kent C. Williamson: Let’s say we find Floyd. What are you going to say to him?
Sandy Sturch: If Floyd still has a sense of humor he’ll probably make some wisecrack about where he’s been all these years. That would be Floyd. He had a great dry wit. I don’t know what literally I would say to Floyd. I probably wouldn’t have words to speak. It would be so overwhelming. I have thought about not just the joys of seeing Floyd again and how wonderful it would be to have him back. But I have thought about the challenge. I’m his only living relative, except for my daughters and there families. Whom he has not met. I don’t know what condition Floyd would be in. And I have asked myself, “If Floyd is alive, and he came back, am I willing to set aside my life to care for him as long as I’m here. To do that.” And of course, I would do that.
Chapter: Remembering Floyd…
Kent C. Williamson: What does Floyd mean to you?
Sandy Sturch: Floyd is probably one of the most committed Christians I’ve ever known. And I never doubted that even as a kid. Floyd is one who if the Lord had said to Floyd, “I want you to give your life for these people, for the Vietnamese.” Floyd would have said he would do that. I don’t doubt that. Floyd loved the Vietnamese. He would write letters home from Vietnam about his love especially for the children of Vietnam. He was crazy about the children. And there were missionaries in Vietnam at that time, there were, that they had to leave when we pulled out and the Communist curtain came down on that country. The missionaries would give Floyd tracts, Gospel tracts, that he would drop from his plane over the rice paddies. To try to share the Gospel with these people. So for Floyd it was loyalty to our country, loyalty to the military, but also a deep love for these people and a desire for the Gospel to be spread. So I see Floyd is not just my brother I see him as a strong Christian and as a servant of Jesus Christ, who would have said, “whatever Lord, whatever you want with my life is what I want.” Yes, I always grieve the loss of Floyd. I wish that we could have spent our adult years together. And and I share Floyd’s feeling that if this is what needed to happen, for whatever eternal purposes for those people in Vietnam, then so be it. That’s the way we feel about it. There is a side of me that is almost more comforted to think that Floyd died instantly in the crash. That would have been the easier way perhaps to enter the eternal kingdom, than to go through what he has probably endured if he is alive. But if he’s alive I suspect there are others alive also, other Americans over there. I do not know God’s plan, God’s purpose, I cannot guess, but knowing that God has a plan and yet has not revealed it to me, I take great comfort in that.
Kent C. Williamson: You have kids of your own. What do you tell them? Who was Uncle Floyd?
Karen Williamson: What I have told my kids about my uncle Floyd is that he was their grandma’s brother. That he fought in the war and that his helicopter was lost and nobody ever found it. And that we believe that he died there, but they’re really only God knows. The difficult part is that, because I’ve never known him, I can pass on what I’ve heard, but it’s not, it’s not the same as them knowing him. So there will be pictures, he’ll be part of our family history. There will be stories of him singing with their grandmother as kids in church and there will be stories, but there really won’t be many of those.
Sandy Sturch: I don’t wanna hold Floyd up as a hero in one sense, because this is the call I think of every Christian and there have been many who have preceded Floyd, and many who will follow him.But I do hold him up as a young man who was faithful to his call.
Kent C. Williamson: In 2005 the organization Vets With A Mission began utilizing the clinic in Hong Ha Village. In 2011 they worked with the Vietnamese government to build a new larger and more modern clinic in Hong Ha. It’s known as the Floyd Olsen Memorial Clinic. As of this Memorial Day in 2017, my wife’s uncle Lieutenant Colonel Floyd W. Olsen is still unaccounted for. He’s one of 1,611 Vietnam Veterans who are still missing. The live sighting reports in their familiar brown envelopes have stopped arriving.
Turn Again To Life
If I should die and leave you here awhile,
Be not like others, sore undone, who keep
Long vigils by the silent dust, and weep.
For my sake – turn again to life and smile,
Nerving thy heart and trembling hand to do
Something to comfort other hearts than thine.
Complete those dear unfinished tasks of mine
And I, perchance, may therein comfort you.
— Mary Lee Hall
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this final episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. It has been one of my greatest honors to be able to tell the stories of these veterans we’ve been following all season long.
You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com and you can still use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film.
If you have any thoughts about this or any of the other episodes in the series, please send an email to me at Kent at By War And By God dot com.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter.
Special thanks to Rebecca Burylo and the Montgomery Advertiser for their coverage of Colonel Campbell’s story. Special thanks also to Leslie Wood for performing the voice of my mother-in-law as quoted in the Corpus Cristi Times, reading the poem Turn Again To Life by Mary Lee Hall, and reading the chapter titles in this episode.
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the entire soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com. Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 12 – Memorial Day Special: The Story of Floyd W. Olsen
PLAYERS: Sandy Olsen Sturch, Karen Williamson and host Kent C. Williamson
SUMMARY: One Vietnam Veteran still unaccounted for is remembered by his sister and niece in this Memorial Day Special.
LINKS:
US Wings Website – Average age of US soldier during Vietnam War was 22
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
Corpus Cristi Times – August 18, 1972 edition (may require subscription)
Montgomery Advertiser – Nearly 50 Years Later, Vietnam Veteran Finally Comes Home
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 11 — The Remarkable Legacy of Vets With A Mission
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SUMMARY: Vietnam Veterans discuss the legacy they desire to leave behind through the work of Vets With A Mission.
TEASER — Mike Bernardo: I’ve never seen a group that’s quite so generous and open hearted. And here they are being generous and open hearted in a country where people were shooting at them, and people were trying to kill them. So that’s to me, that’s something that will stay with me, is just the generosity and the openness and the kindness of these guys – really is remarkable.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: The average age of our soldiers during the Vietnam war was 22 (that’s according to the US Wings website). What that means is that today most Vietnam veterans are in their late 60’s and 70’s. The Vets we’ve been following in this podcast know that they can’t continue making trips back to Vietnam forever. As much as they love serving the people there, they understand that their final trip back to Vietnam looms on the horizon. And for the most part, they’re okay with that. They’ve been faithfully doing their work in Vietnam all the while knowing that at some point their mission will be complete. At some point their work their will come to an end. So when I sat down with each of these men I made sure to ask them about the legacy they’ll leave behind.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. In the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people whose lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy, and stories of reconciliation. You’ve heard about the magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country. And today we’ll talk about their legacy.
But before we jump into today’s episode, allow me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the place to go to purchase the documentary film By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on your copy of By War & By God. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and reconciliation.
In today’s episode we’re talking about legacy. Back in the 1700’s, Benjamin Franklin offered some good advice regarding leaving a legacy when he wrote, “If you would not be forgotten as soon as you are dead, either write something worth reading or do something worth writing.” The veterans we have been following in this series have been doing something worth writing about. Which is precisely why we made the film and created this podcast. So let’s examine the legacy that Vets With A Mission will leave behind. Alright, here we go…
Bob Peragallo: I think that people in our society have a very warped understanding of what war is all about. How it comes into existence, how it’s fought and what the after effects of war are. And how we treat each other, how we treat former enemies.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: There’s two, two aspects of war, it’s the people that you fight against – the actual soldier to soldier. And then there is the society that is affected by war. In America and in Vietnam, both societies were affected by war. Part of the healing process that Vets With A Mission was able to bring was to the social aspect, as well the actual soldiers that we fought against. And I would hope that Vets With a Mission would be a model, a frame work that others could look at and learn and see that, “Yes this is possible, that out of such tragedy and difficulty could come a ray of hope. And that we all don’t just become ravaging, angry bitter people; that we actually can have a transformation in our own selves and good can come out of that experience. So, I would hope we would be a model for other people.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: In a blog on the Huffington Post website back in 2015, Katherine Meadowcroft authored an article titled “What Is Your Legacy?” She wrote, “A legacy should be deeply considered. It takes on immortality, and it is how we live on after death. If we think of our legacy as a gift, it places an emphasis on the thoughtful, meaningful, and intentional aspects of legacy. The consequences of what we do now will outlive us.” I personally love the idea of a legacy as a gift to future generations. What kind of gift do you want to leave?
Kent C. Williamson: What do you want people fifty years from now to remember about Vets With A Mission?
Mike Bernardo: The main thing that people need to remember about Vets With A Mission, now and in the future and for generations is that – this was a bunch of guys who fought a war that was very difficult, very difficult for them. And because of the changes that happened in their lives as Christians, they wanted to go back and do something to help the Vietnamese people, and do something to make it right.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Vets With A Mission Medical Director, Mike Bernardo…
Mike Bernardo: I’ve never seen a group that’s quite so generous and open hearted. And here they are being generous and open hearted in a country where people were shooting at them, and people were trying to kill them. So that’s to me, that’s something that will stay with me, is just the generosity and the openness and the kindness of these guys – really is remarkable.
Kent C. Williamson: What do you think is the best thing that Vets With A Mission has accomplished?
Bob Peragallo: The best thing that Vets With A Mission has accomplished is a combination of all our work. If we were to put it all together…
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: …Our main purpose is we wanted to reconcile men like myself and other veterans to their war experience. We wanted to bring healing to them personally, but yet at the same time while doing that we would also bring healing to the Vietnamese people. Our motive as soldiers in returning to Vietnam – where that, we were really trying to help the Vietnamese people. I think that we have effectively done that, we’ve showed them that we are human beings and that we were more than just their enemy. For a period of time we were their enemy, but as we went back we became people that were there to help them through their misery and their suffering. The people that we met after 1975 and the late 80’s when we returned – they were an oppressed people. They were a people that suffered greatly, in just the physical aspects of life – mentally they suffered, psychologically they suffered. It was a tremendous tragedy that was unfolding that it appeared that nobody in the world really cared about. But here was a small group of veterans that would return and bring aid to them, and help them. And it spoke volumes to them, and it spoke volumes to us as well. But the real benefit was sending a message that, “Listen, this just wasn’t about conquering a nation or winning a war, it was much more involved than that.”
Roger Helle: It’s hard to probably define one thing that Vets With A Mission have accomplished in Vietnam, because there’s been so many.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: We’ve seen surgical procedures that have been provided by supporters of Vets With A Mission – that have literally saved children’s lives, adult’s lives. Surgical procedures that they could not afford, but if they had not had it they would not have lived. Medical care – in the early days, building a clinic in a rural area would take the infant mortality rate from 40% down to 3 or 4%. And I guess we looked at it as like giving a cup of cold water in Jesus’ name. And other things happening like sitting across the table from men that we fought against years before. Men that – they tried to kill us, and we tried to kill them. And having reconciliation, even to the point of seeing former communists that we fought against coming to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
Kent C. Williamson: When you look back at the work that Vets With A Mission has done, what jumps out?
Cal Dunham: What jumps out for me are the people that we have served.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: The opportunity to interact with the people – either in construction of a clinic, or just working in one of the clinics that we’d already established. These people began to one, see us as Americans in a different light. But we got to see them in a different light of just people helping people. What I hope the Vietnamese began to see was, that my heart was to help them. That there was no more animosity. I just wanted to help them, and when I was helping them, I was helping them in the name of Jesus Christ. I didn’t want them just to see another guy, that was over there just trying to do good for the sake of doing good. I wanted them to really see all of us as people that cared about them. And I think we’ve accomplished that. I think the people that we serve – they know we’re different – not just because we’re helping, but I believe they see Christ in what we are seeking to do for them.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: I’m a filmmaker, an artist, and a writer and as part of my legacy I will leave my films, my paintings, my poems and articles. Even this podcast in a way will become a part of my own legacy. What are you leaving behind? What gift are you giving to future generations? The legacy of Vets With A Mission will be seen in medical clinics and in lives changed and impacted both here in the States and in Vietnam. And it’s my sincere hope that their story (as seen in the film By War & By God and through this podcast) will inspire a soldier from Iraq or Afghanistan to do work similar to what Vets With A Mission has done in the countries impacted by our recent wars. That would be incredible. A link of sorts from one generation of soldiers to another, to continue caring for people impacted by war. That would be an incredible legacy.
Kent C. Williamson: Fifty years from now, what do you hope people know about Vets With A Mission?
Roger Helle: Fifty years from now, what do we want the people of Vietnam to think of Vets With A Mission…
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: My hope is — In the scriptures it says that in the early days of the church, they recognized the Christians by the love that they had for one another. It’s my hope that that they, their children, their grandchildren will remember that there were these Americans that came to Vietnam. And they did what they could to help us, and they loved us. I remember one time early on, sitting across the table from a former North Vietnamese colonel. In those early days they always ask us, “When were you here, where were you at?” Well as we were talking, I discovered that he was the commanding officer of a regiment of North Vietnamese regulars that nearly wiped my company out on a search and destroy mission. We walked into their base camp and we were overrun – we fought for five days in this battle in this valley, trying to keep from being overrun. And so, we had this awkward moment that he realized that I had lost friends, and he was responsible – it was his men that nearly wiped us out. And so, through the interpreter, he said, “Why are you doing this, why are you coming back to my country, why are you helping us?’ He said, “You know, this may seem like a small thing,” the project we did at the orphanage. He said, “May seem like a small thing to you, but it’s not to us.” He said, the Carnegie Foundation came to Vietnam and said, “We want to do something, and never came back. The Ford Foundation came and said we want to help you, but never came back. But you, you’ve done something and why are you doing this?” And I looked at that Colonel, and I said, “Sir, Jesus Christ has taken away all the pain and hurt that I experienced during my time in Vietnam. And because of that love that God has for me, I can say, ‘I love you’ and ‘Jesus loves you.’” And our interpreter down at the end of the table started bawling. And so we had the Americans on one side of the table and we had the communists on the other. And everybody’s looking down at the table saying, “What did this Yankee imperialist say to our precious sister that she’s sitting down there bawling?” A couple moments of silence, and our interpreter just finally stopped crying and she told the colonel what I said. And when she translated what I said, he looked across the table and his eyes were big, and he just looked at me then he stood up with his hands on the table and he came around the end of the conference table. And I got up, and he looked up at me – I’m 6’4 and he’s not. And he looked up and he just threw his arms around me and had tears just streaming down his eyes – and I just hugged him. And we got done, he looked at our interpreter and he said to her, he said, “Tell him I’ve never had an enemy tell me before that he loved me.” That’s what I hope, fifty years from now – that they’ll remember those acts of kindness, acts of love. Where we’d get beyond the war, and that Vietnam is a nation and it’s a people that God loves unconditionally.
Dave Carlson: I would like people to think…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…
Dave Carlson: …that God is so sovereign and powerful that He can take people who spent the best part of their lives, their youth. Who came over here to destroy and to kill, and to take territory, and to win. And then went home after a debacle of all sorts of international pressures and decisions to relative shame in their own country. He took those broken people, and he brought them back to the place where they fought. The most unlikely people in the world to take his message back, and to plant seeds of both reconciliation between our countries, reconciliation between individuals who fought, but also, salvation for those who fought who were tormented in their own minds and hearts. And salvation of the people that they came originally to hurt, and now they came back to save. And if anything, it’s proof that God can use anybody. Doesn’t have to be well trained, doesn’t have to be well spoken, doesn’t have to be evangelical, miracle workers. He can take soldiers, and people who are the least likely to be ambassadors. And can plant seeds that have amazing outcomes. That would be a great legacy for Vets With A Mission.
Phil Carney: What I would want people to remember about Vets With A Mission…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: …is that without question, Vets With A Mission was God’s idea. And it was something God raised up, and something God made happen, and something God has used. And I don’t say that to sound over spiritual. If anybody would have been watching the formation of Vets With a Mission, especially in those earlier days. I don’t think anybody would have probably from the sidelines witnessed what we were talking about, and who was doing it, and saying, “that’s a really good idea”. I think God raised up the most unlikely people. It was primarily Vietnam vets in the early days. All of us had issues that we hadn’t even dealt with yet. So the idea was, a bunch of Vietnam veterans that are now Christians – let’s find out if we can get back into Vietnam and see what we can do. I think any good mental health specialist would have said “That’s really a bad idea, you guys shouldn’t do that, something really bad is going to happen.” And yet, it was God. And I don’t remember any of us thinking in those early days, or any of the early board meetings and so on, thinking that it was going to have any longevity. Maybe we’ll do something 3 or 4 years, do a few trips, maybe develop some humanitarian projects. And here we are 25 years later, and to see the impact that Vets With A Mission has had on people that have gone on the trips, vets, wives of vets, such a diverse make up of people, and the impact it’s had on Vietnam. What I would want people to remember about Vets With A Mission, was that it was God’s idea – and he raised it up from the most unlikely sources and diverse make up of people. And has added to it, and grown it, and used it in a very significant way. I would just want people to remember and know that about Vets With A Mission. It really, really, really has been raised up of God and used of God.
Kent C. Williamson: With all the work that’s been done in Vietnam, how do you want Vets With A Mission to be remembered?
BREAK: Kent C. Williamson: But first, I want to give you a heads up about next week’s episode. It will be our final episode of the By War & By God Podcast and it will truly be a Memorial Day Special. If you listen to our show from beginning to end you know that I close each episode with this line “And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!” Well, in next week’s episode we will tell the story of my wife’s uncle, Lieutenant Colonel Floyd W. Olsen who was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam. In April of 1968 he flew his final mission; a flight from which he would never return. But as you’ll learn, even in death Floyd Olsen left a legacy; a legacy that lives on today in Vietnam. So please make sure you join us next week as we conclude this series. Now back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: With all the work that’s been done in Vietnam, how do you want Vets With A Mission to be remembered?
Pat Cameron: We built 21 medical clinics there. We built a church while we were there. And we built some great relationships with a lot of great Vietnamese people and that it’s gonna grow and make a huge impact that maybe I’ll never see.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: Twenty-five years from now, I don’t know if I’ll be here or not but it’d be nice to think that – they look back someday and say, “Those crazy vets made a huge difference to us that had nothing to do with the war.” I think that’s the key to Vets With A Mission. We’re not doing it because of the war. We’re doing it because – for the love of God and the – come back over there and reconcile with them that we love them. And that we want to help them. And that we know they need us and we need them. I think the impact – we’ll never know, maybe for 50 years or a hundred years what we will – what impact we made there. But I do know they know who we are. And I do know that there’s a lot of villages and a lot of Vietnamese over there that without us they wouldn’t – a lot of them wouldn’t still be living. A lot of children that’s gonna grow up and a lot of them going to remember what we did and tell their children. My big hope is that they know – one, the most important reason we’re there is that we’re serving the Lord.
Chuck Ward: Most of my life, I’ve struggled with self-esteem issues – rejection, that sort of thing.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: I don’t know if it was because I was always the smallest kid, the shortest guy in grade school and high school and college, sports – always the last one picked. Didn’t grow up in a very close family, or a lot of physical contact in my family, so I’ve always struggled with that. And it’s hard for me to separate what I want people to think about me, and think about Vets With A Mission. So, Vets With A Mission has been a savior for me, and the Lord allowing me to work in this ministry, to serve in this ministry as a volunteer and now being so involved as the leaders – one of the leaders of the organization. What I would want people to know or remember, my legacy. Is that I finally accounted for something. I amounted to something. I was valuable in my life. My life meant something. And the work that I’ve done will leave a legacy, regardless of my shortcomings and failures in my life. I’ve struggled being a father, I’ve struggled being a good husband. I’ve struggled in my career at times. But through this, I think I made a genuine difference, and that’s what I hope people would remember about me, and Vets With A Mission — that we made a difference — not only on this earth, but eternally.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Don’t forget to tune in next week for our final episode of the series, our Memorial Day Special, as we tell the story of Lieutenant Colonel Floyd W. Olsen.
You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film. You can also watch By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.
You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.
Special thanks to Ashby Wratchford who portrayed the voice of Benjamin Franklin in today’s episode. Thanks Ashby!
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com. Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 11 – The Legacy of Vets With A Mission
PLAYERS: Mike Bernardo, Pat Cameron, Phil Carney, Dave Carlson, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Bob Peragallo, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
SUMMARY: The remarkable legacy of Vets With A Mission.
LINKS:
US Wings Website – Average age of US soldier during Vietnam War was 22
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
Huffington Post – Blog Article – “What Is Your Legacy?” by Katherine Meadowcroft
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 10 — Reconciliation: With Self, Vietnam, and Former Enemies
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SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator?
TEASER — Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: The word “reconciliation” seems antiquated in this present age of divisiveness and polarization. It’s a word that has fallen from the common man’s lexicon into the pile of unused, unneeded, unspoken linguistic terms and expressions. In a world where friendships come and go, but where enemies can last a lifetime, it shouldn’t be surprising that “reconciliation” is seldom heard or spoken. After all, people might feel obligated to make and keep room in our vocabularies for such valuable phrases as “go to hell”, “F-you”, and “If I see you again before I die, it will be too soon.” But fortunately, that’s not the case for the Vietnam veterans we’ve been following in this series.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. In the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… and today we’ll hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, which, of course, is the result of a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we jump into today’s episode, allow me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the online store for Paladin Pictures. It’s the place to go to purchase any of Paladin’s films including the documentary By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on the By War & By God DVD. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and what’s that word? Oh yeah, reconciliation.
In today’s episode we’ll see what reconciliation looks like. What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and ultimately with your Creator? Alright, here we go…
Bill Steele: One of the most interesting things I experienced, there was a – there was a man on the team that I was on, who was a Vietnam Veteran, but had never really experienced closure.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bill Steele…
Bill Steele: He had been involved in a battle on the Mekong Delta, where a number of the people in his outfit had been killed. And Bill was still struggling with that, and while we were over there, he got a chance to go up the Mekong Delta, and actually went to the spot where this ambush had taken place. And after he returned from the Mekong Delta, he called his wife and they had a conversation on the phone, and she said, “You have just given me the 4 sweetest words I have ever heard from you.” And he said, “I just said 3 words. I said, ‘I love you.’” She said, “No, you said something else. You said, ‘my war is over.'” And that was, that was really something significant to me to hear this man say that – that was closure for him. And so, he was able to make that reconciliation with his past, and I think that was significant.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: In the 1800’s, an Americas great poets wrote a few lines called Reconciliation. Perhaps we can learn something from his perspective…
POEM: Reconciliation by Walt Whitman
WORD over all, beautiful as the sky!
Beautiful that war, and all its deeds of carnage, must in time be utterly lost;
That the hands of the sisters Death and Night, incessantly softly wash again, and ever again, this soil’d world:
For my enemy is dead—a man divine as myself is dead;
I look where he lies, white-faced and still, in the coffin—I draw near;
I bend down, and touch lightly with my lips the white face in the coffin.
Kent C. Williamson: What do you think reconciliation means? How would you define that?
Bill Steele: Reconciliation, I think has a couple of different interpretations as far as Vets With A Mission is concerned.
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Bill Steele…
Bill Steele: One obviously is I think that many of the veterans had the opportunity to reconcile with their past and to perhaps undergo a healing experience. And then there is the fact that we were at odds with this country. We were fighting one another, and now we’ve had the opportunity to be reconciled with them. To be able to help them – to help them overcome some of the difficulties that they’re experiencing in their country.
Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation and forgiveness are not the same thing.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: Jesus himself forgave everybody he ran into, but there’s not one person in the scriptures that ever asked Jesus for forgiveness. He automatically gave it. Reconciliation is more than that, reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together. And our work in Vietnam could not be accomplished unless the government and the soldiers that we fought against allowed us to work together with them. We’ve accomplished some very powerful and dynamic things in Vietnam over the years, and that only came about because people that we met that we built relationships with partnered with us and allowed us to work with them in rebuilding and reestablishing—if it was health care or whatever it was in Vietnam that we were doing, orphanage work. So there was a partnering, and that’s what reconciliation is.
Cal Dunham: Reconciliation to me, as I look at what we’ve done in Vietnam, I have seen 2 or 3 things really that stand out.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: I have seen reconciliation with just the people of Vietnam. Those that we’re serving – when we’re helping them, we’re just looking at each other as people that are helping each other. So I see a reconciliation there. I don’t see an animosity of them toward us or us toward them. I have seen reconciliation with former enemies, where we have sat down at a table for dinner together. VC, NVA sitting on one side of the table, and a bunch of us sitting on the other side of the table. Just, in our way that we can communicate through interpreters or through broken english or whatever – being able to talk to one another. And I see the realization from both sides of that table. From the – by the end of the evening that we all had a mission, but now quite frankly – we’re just a bunch of old farts sitting there having a beer together and talking about the old days. For me – I have never seen anything, “Oh man I can’t wait to get out of here.” I just sit there and say, “Hey, this is great. This is great, ’cause – hey, we did what we did. And we both were doing it because – for whatever reason, our governments were telling us, ‘this is what we’re gonna do.’ But now, that’s all behind us. Let’s just have a good time.” And then the third part of that reconciliation, I’ve seen – I know, because it happened to me. I was able to reconcile in my own heart and mind some guilt that I had. Such a strong negative attitude toward the Vietnamese themselves – not just soldiers, but everybody. I’ve been able to reconcile that. There’s been a reconciliation in my own heart and mind, my soul, about the people of Vietnam. So that’s what it means to me, those – basically those 3 areas.
Kent C. Williamson: Define reconciliation for me. What does that look like?
BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: But first, Do you know that you can go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission? Yes, you! Whether or not you’re a Vietnam veteran, whether or not you’re a medical professional, you can experience some of the thrill of serving, of caring for the people in the rural villages of that beautiful country. You can experience reconciliation for yourself. Learn more about the upcoming trips at Vets With A Mission dot org and start making your plans today. Alright, back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: Define reconciliation for me. What does that look like?
Dave Carlson: Reconciliation to me means – taking people who have diametrically opposed vision or purpose…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…
Dave Carlson: …but finding those parts of what they are or what they do that can be aligned to work in tandem to go forward. We all know that two opposing forces meet, they don’t go anywhere, they just sit there and grind. But somehow, even people who are diametrically opposed at some point, can find a place where they agree, and where they can become brothers. And can make positive movement. And those two opposing forces go alongside, and move in a positive direction. That to me is one definition of reconciliation – there’s a lot of different ones. But in this case, we have former combatants who would actually sit down with each other and plan out what they could do to both improve the country, and improve the lives of the people who are the children of those that they fought. And that to me is reconciliation.
Kent C. Williamson: What does reconciliation mean?
Jim Proctor: When I talked to Bill Kimble in the early years, and some of the early board members, it was a two pronged process.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Jim Proctor…
Jim Proctor: They wanted to reconcile to some extent – especially the Vietnam Vets, with their experience over there, with the people. And at the same time, they wanted their people to recognize that there was a further reconciliation. And that’s reconciliation with Jesus Christ. And because Vets With A Mission has worked in a communist country, we sometimes have to downplay or be a little bit more discreet in the reconciliation of Jesus Christ. I think that’s where – just working one on one, or working on a project with someone – establishing a relationship is. I think for some of the Vets that have gone over there, it has certainly helped them to reconnect with the people, to see areas that they may have served in. I am so thankful that I didn’t have to fight a war over there. And it’s interesting when I’ve asked veterans – friends of mine if they want to go back, there’s no middle ground. There is either, “I’ve always wanted to go back, I love the people, I love the food, the country was beautiful.” Or there are people that don’t even want me to finish the question in a sentence. They’d say, “No way do I ever want to go back.” And I’m sure that’s related directly to their experience and what they experienced in the Vietnam War. And I have seen people that have had a certain hesitancy on these trips going back. They don’t know what to expect. And I know that that’s been important for them to go back there and see that, and see where they were at, and experience that again. And that helps them. It helps them with the issues in their life.
Bob Peragallo: I met a man in the Que Son Valley who – a Mr. Som. And he was the chairman of the People’s committee.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: And we built one of our early clinics in the Que Son Valley. And to do that there’s a lot of meetings that have to be attended, there’s a lot of preliminary handshaking. We have to have a beer together, we meet the People’s committee.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: The clinic that Bob Peragallo helped build for Mr. Som’s commune was the one he told us about in last week’s episode. As you recall, the area had a childbirth death rate of 33% and after Vets With A Mission’s clinic opened the death rate during childbirth dropped to just 3%.
Bob Peragallo: And we were having dinner together with the members of the People’s committee and a small group of us from Vets With A Mission. And we shook hands, and Mr. Som had a wooden leg, and I asked him how he lost his leg, if he’d lost it in a war. And he said, “Yes,” that a – he got shot by a machine gun. And so, we sat down and through the interpreters we were having this communication. And I told the interpreter I said, “Would you tell Mr. Som that I was a machine gunner. And the interpreter didn’t want to do it, and it got real quiet and everybody got hushed. And the Vietnamese around us through the interpreter knew what was going on. And finally I just said, “Tell him.” And so he told Mr. Som that I was a machine gunner and that I served in the Que Son Valley with the 9th marines. And I looked over at Mr. Som, and he smiled and kind of grinned a little bit, and then I told the interpreter. I, I said that, “I’d like to see how Mr. Som that I might have been the one that shot his leg off. And I don’t want to say that I’m sorry for doing that, but I want Mr. Som to know and understand that the war is over and at one time we – we could have been and probably were former enemies, and engaged in combat. But now we’re here together, working together to improve the quality of health care for his, for his commune. And Mr. Som stood up, and he shook my hand. And Mr. Som hugged me. And we embraced each other, and that was the dynamic moment in my Vietnam experience with Vets With A Mission.
When I talked with Mr. Som, in my experience with him. I know that I had forgiven him as an enemy before I ever spoke anything, before it had ever come out of me. It was something that happened deep inside of me, and the end result was that we embraced. And as as fellow warriors there was an honor, and there was something between us.
Chuck Ward: You may or may not know, but the founding scriptural foundation for Vets With A Mission, is 2nd Corinthians 5:18 – which is the Ministry of Reconciliation.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Nearly 2000 years ago, the Apostle Paul wrote a couple of letters to the people who were the church in the town of Corinth. In his second letter he wrote the part that Chuck Ward referred to which says this… “if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Chuck Ward: So Vets With A Mission has always been about reconciling people to one another. And in this context, country to country, Vet to Vet. And I’m talking about Americans, South Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, NVA. And I’m talking about people of Vietnam to the people of the United States. And most importantly, being reconciled to God. So Vets With A Mission, for many years would take American Veterans and introduce them to Viet Cong and NVA veterans at what we call reconciliation dinners. And it’s always very tense when those dinners start. But 99.9% of the time, the Veterans on each side of that table – by the time that dinner is over, they’ve got this special bond. And it’s not about winning the war or killing your enemy. It gets down to the lowest common denominator. Men begin telling one another, “I was just doing my job. I was doing what I was told to do. And I didn’t necessarily like it, but I did it, because I wanted to serve my country.” And soon these men who have issues – I mean, no one goes to war that they come back the same person, it just doesn’t happen. They begin to share, and it’s a very emotional time, and reconciliation becomes real. Because men who would have never thought of talking to one another – are talking about their families, talking about their children, talking about, “Let’s have a beer together, let’s get in touch, let’s keep in touch.” It takes place. And one of the most wonderful things about reconciliation is, you know, a lot of people struggled with Vietnam, particularly the Vets who served there. And through reconciliation, this is what happens. So many are stuck in the past, and they have so many terrible memories. And I like to make the analogy that Vietnam is like the pig in the pigsty. You’ve got the pig, and the pig is happy to be wallowing in that mud and filth and everything. And so, I make the analogy that – Vietnam is the pig, and you can go in there, and you’ve gotta wrestle with that pig – and you’re gonna come out smelling and looking like you know what. But that pig is gonna come out smiling and feeling good about itself. So why let Vietnam – why wrestle with the pig of Vietnam, and let it have that effect on you? Let it run your life, ruin your life. It’s time to move on. And through reconciliation, that’s what happens. Vets go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission. They meet their former enemy, they meet the people. And reconciliation comes full circle from the terrible memories of 1968 or 1969, to discovering the war is really over. And through reconciliation, that war within is finally over. And when I see Vets – when that lightbulb goes off, when they’re in Vietnam on one of our teams, and they realize the war is over – not only there, but over inside. It makes – that is a great day to be in Vietnam, on a Vets With A Mission Team.
Kent C. Williamson: One more time, Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: When the scriptures talk about God reconciling the world to himself. It’s not just that he forgave us of our sins. It’s us learning to work together with Him for the purpose of establishing His, his kingdom. We become partners with Him, and reconciliation is that. That we learn to work together—former enemies that were trying to kill each other, now are working together to build and repair the tragedy of war. The tragedy of, of such a, a horrible experience, out of it comes something that’s positive and good.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film. You can also watch By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.
You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter… except he’s missing today, so I don’t know if we need to credit him. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.
Special thanks to Trevor Przyuski for his wonderful reading of the Walt Whitman poem Reconciliation. Thanks Trevor!
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.
Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 10 – Reconciliation: With Self, Vietnam, and Former Enemies
PLAYERS: Dave Carlson, Cal Dunham, Jim Proctor, Bob Peragallo, Bill Steele, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator?
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 09 — The Amazing Impact Of Vets With A Mission
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SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans describe the impact they have in Vietnam through their work with Vets With A Mission, but we also hear about the impact that Vietnam now has on them.
TEASER — Cal Dunham: I tell you, a smile goes a long way. I can be hot and sweaty and miserable, but when that person looks at me and smiles, and in their smile they’re saying “Thank you”. It doesn’t get any better than that.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: One of the definitions of the verb “impact” reads, to “have a strong effect on someone or something.” The Vietnam war had an impact on our veterans. A handful of these veterans returned to Vietnam and had an impact on the people of Vietnam. The people of Vietnam then, in turn, had an impact on these veterans.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. And, by the way, I’m very pleased to announce that just this week we won another one. We picked up the Best Documentary Short Film Award at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma. Thank you Bare Bones! This season on the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… and soon we’re going to hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, which, of course, is the result of a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we jump into today’s episode, let me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the online store for Paladin Pictures. It’s the place to go to purchase any of Paladin’s films including your copy of the documentary By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on By War & By God. And remember that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and reconciliation.
Today, we’ll learn about The Amazing Impact of Vets With A Mission. And we’ll also learn about the impact that the impact has had on those doing the impacting…
Kent C. Williamson: Of your seven trips back to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission, what would you say is your best memory?
Pat Cameron: Well, the best memory is the first trip…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: The Lion’s Club had given me about 10,000 pair of eyeglasses and quite a few pair of sunglasses. And we were going to start seeing patients. And I was going to go through all the eyewear – separated the mens and ladies and children – and I was going to be able to try to match that prescription up as close as I could. And provide them with some eyewear so they could read and see. I had this feeling that maybe something cool – something neat’s going to happen. Maybe the Lord going to do something to really show me a miracle. Here I am asking for a miracle. And it’s my first time over there. Well it’s five o’clock their time – we’re getting ready to – we’re seeing our last patients. And the last patients is a 7-year old girl. Tim came downstairs with her mother and said, “I doubt we can do much for her, Pat” And he handed me that prescription and it was for bottle-cap-type glasses; about +10 power. And he said, “I know you ain’t got anything.” I went over there and there was a set of kid’s glasses that were bottle-caps, +10’s, within very close to her prescription. And I pulled those out – I looked at them but I ain’t got no idea how them glasses got in there. And I put those glasses on that little girl and – her eyes were already a little large for the – with the eyewear but they got huge. And she said something in Vietnamese to her mother and her mother looked over at me and started crying. And my translator said, “This child has never seen her mother. And she never seen anything except blurriness – pretty much light, dark, and blurry.” She could see leaves, she could see – she’d never seen stars. She’d never seen her daddy or her sisters and brothers. And if that ain’t a miracle, there never going to be one. I sit there and cried with her mother. That life of that child and that family – and maybe that whole village when they heard the stories – changed. It changed me. That made it perfectly clear to me why I was sent. And that’s probably why I’ve come back so many times. Because I know that every time we go back we can make an impact. That’s a moment that will never leave me. I’ve told the story a number of times to people. It’s just a cool story. Just a cool story.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your best day with Vets With A Mission.
Steve Scott: They’re all good. It’s all good.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Steve Scott
Steve Scott: I am most comfortable when I’m hot and sweaty and out in a Montagnard village with people that I know need my help.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: A leftover term from the French Colonial era in Vietnam, Montagnard means “people of the mountain”. These indigenous people groups occupy the Central Highland area of Vietnam. Influenced by French Missionaries during the 19th century and American missionaries during the 1930’s many Montagnards converted to Christianity. This caused them to be viewed as suspect by North Vietnamese forces during the Vietnam War. Estimates are that over 40,000 Montagnards fought alongside the American forces, but when America withdrew from Vietnam in April of 1975, these Montagnards were left to defend themselves. As a result, many were put to death by the communist regime while many others fled the country in an attempt to save their lives.
Steve Scott: I am most comfortable when I’m hot and sweaty and out in a Montagnard village with people that I know need my help. Be it a seven year old that needs a heart operation – and I’m the guy. I do triage, so I see these people first. First person that sees them, and sometimes I’ll have this kid come in with club nails and they’re cyanotic, and I know full well they need heart surgery and I’m the guy that can send them to the doctor and get it started and we can save that kids life. So, I mean, that’s priceless. I also feel just as good if an old lady comes in and she’s got aches and pains and I can talk to her, and I can speak enough Vietnamese to talk to her and find out that – you know, I can relieve her pain. I can make her feel better when she goes home. So, yeah, those are the priceless things. So, I don’t particular care for staying in the four star hotels, or any of the tourist stuff anymore. I’ve been there, done that. I really like to go out in the villages. I suppose, if I could do anything I wanted, I’d just be the barefoot doctor who wanders around Southeast Asia with a backpack full of medicine.
Jim Proctor: I would say that my best day in Vietnam’s probably one of the hardest days in Vietnam.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Jim Proctor…
Jim Proctor: I was working security. Again, it’s a communist country, they’d pretty much decide who can come in and who can’t come in. And they have to have the right paperwork and everything. And it was very tough when you could see the desperation in some of these people’s faces. That they wanted to get in and they wanted to see the American doctors. And they had an issue, and they wanted to get healed. We could only let certain people in, and that was very tough. And there were – sometimes ladies that looked like they were in their 80’s, certainly maybe in their 60’s and 70’s crawling over barbed wire fences, or trying to get over the gates with the little pointed arrow type things that are to keep people out. And actually having to pick them up and put them outside of the gate because they couldn’t get in. And that was, that was tough – but at the same time, that is something that has stuck with me. It really affected how I felt about it, and the desperation, and can relate to that. And so, while that is one of the – probably the toughest day, I think it was one of the best in the fact that it really humanized that for me. We’re affecting people’s lives.
Bill Steele: The people who were able to take advantage of what we were offering had been invited by the Vietnamese government to come. They had to have it – it was invitation only. And this lady showed up and she didn’t have an invitation.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bill Steele…
Bill Steele: She had a little baby with her, a little girl that was probably a year, year and a half old that was sick. And she wanted medical attention for this child. And she saw me, and she knew I had to be somebody, because I obviously wasn’t Vietnamese. And she came up to me, and she approached me – because we couldn’t communicate language-wise, but she helped me to understand that she needed medical attention for her child. And I felt – I was able to take her to one of the Vietnamese doctors and to explain the situation, and get the child looked at. And it just, it was so heartwarming I think to be able to do a little something that was perhaps above and beyond the call of what we were supposed to be doing there.
Kent C. Williamson: What would you say is your best experience with Vets With A Mission?
BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: But first, Do you know that you can go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission? Yes, you! Whether or not you’re a Vietnam veteran, whether or not you’re a medical professional, you can experience some of the thrill of serving, of caring for the people in the rural villages of that beautiful country. Learn more about the upcoming trips at Vets With A Mission dot org and start making your plans today. Alright, back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: What would you say is your best experience with Vets With A Mission?
Cal Dunham: My best experience with Vets With A Mission…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: As strange as this sounds – the joy of carrying a little old lady – or a man, or a little boy, that needs to get up the stairs to see the doctor. Or get down the hallway to see the doctor in the clinic. Of picking them up and holding them, to get them where they need to get, if they can’t do it on their own. And they just look at you, and smile. I tell you, a smile goes a long way. I can be hot and sweaty and miserable, but when that person looks at me and smiles, and in their smile they’re saying “Thank you”. It doesn’t get any better than that.
Kent C. Williamson: As you recall from last episode In the early days of the organization, Vets With A Mission, helped build a therapy pool for a polio orphanage in Saigon. This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: We met a couple that were married with two children.
Kent C. Williamson: Both the husband and the wife had polio.
Roger Helle: There was just something about the, it was actually the husband. Here he is, he’s got polio, his children did not. And so, I asked them, where they met – and they had met at the orphanage when they were children.
Kent C. Williamson: The same orphanage in Saigon where Roger had been years before.
Roger Helle: For years now I carried little happy face stickers in my pocket. And so I looked at them and said, “When you were a child, do you remember some Americans coming to your orphanage?” And I held up one of the little stickers and both of them, their eyes just got big and they said, “Yes.” And I said, “That was us.” And just the fact that, full circle, 20 years later -because of an act of kindness – we couldn’t share the gospel in words. I think it was Francis of Assisi said, “Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words.” And while we could not use words to share the love of Christ, we did it in acts of kindness. And here was that couple 20 years later that had come full circle. And we had come full circle as a ministry – and that was probably one of the most exciting days that I can remember. You know, he had the same smile he had when he was a 10 year old kid. And here now, they were believers and they were going to a church that Vets With A Mission supported in Saigon. And 20 years after we met them as children in a polio orphanage, now here they had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ – and married and in the church that we were supporting. God has an incredible sense of bringing things to your awareness, to let you know that what you’re doing is making a difference.
Kent C. Williamson: What’s the best memory of your experiences going back?
Phil Carney: Wow, well I guess my best and most impacting memory going back was the first trip.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: We were out at Marble Mountain. We had come into a real large village full of people. It occurred to me that during the war something really significant had happened in that village – or near that village. What had happened back in 1970 when I was there was – we were out on a small operation, and we had stopped to have lunch, and our squad leader had told us to break out chow – C-rations and so on. And I had a can of C-rations in my hand.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: C-rations or Type C-rations were pre-cooked individual meals ready to be eaten out in the field, straight from the can. Other types of rations include A-rations… meals for troops that are prepared with fresh, refrigerated, or frozen ingredients, B-rations… meals for troops prepared with canned or preserved ingredients, K-rations which contained three meals to cover an entire day and provided up to 3000 calories for airborne troops, tank corps, and other mobile units, and D-rations which were chocolate bars designed, with the help of Hershey’s Chocolate, not to melt.
Phil Carney: And I had a can of C-rations in my hand. And I remember just sitting on my helmet and looking at this can of C-rations and this old mama-san had found her way and she got up behind me and she tapped me on the shoulder – and it just startled me. And I remember standing up and spinning around, and I had that can of C-rations in my hand. And I was so angry at her because she scared me and startled me. And I, just out of my anger and frustration, I took that can of C-Rations and I threw it at her. And I hit her right in the chest, I hit her as hard as I could with that can of C-Rations, and she just crumbled right in front of me; knocked the breath out of her. I remember she reached and grabbed that can of C-rations, picked it up, got back up on her feet, bowed, and said thank you, and hobbled off. It was one of those moments where you go “Boy, you didn’t know that was in you.” So in 1989 on my first trip back to Vietnam, we’re in this village near where this incident happened in 1970. And all of these people are coming out of the village, and they’re figuring out these are Americans and they were here during the war. I remember a lady came out that would have been our age now, but she worked in the laundry on the Da Nang air base during the war. And all she could remember was English slang words from the war, from the ’60s. And I remember her running out and trying to communicate with us and she was saying “You are groovy, you are psychedelic, Jimi Hendrix, far out man.” And those kinds of things were going on, and everybody was having a moment. And many of these Vietnamese were coming out and they were presenting us with things they had kept from the war. The flag, remember one person came out and gave a chevron, a corporal rank of a corporal chevron to one of the guys – that this person had had since the war. And the best thing that happened to me on any of the trips was in that moment, and there were hundreds of people everywhere, and it was such a God moment. That a lady came up to me – a lady. And this lady handed me an old, empty, wore out can of C-rations – and she handed it to me. And I remember standing there looking at that, and that moment was the most incredible moment. It couldn’t have been more real if Jesus himself had been standing there, and handed me the can of C-rations. It was if I went back in time to 1970 when I was an 18 year old kid standing there, and doing what I did. That was without a doubt the best day, and the best trip with Vets With A Mission. That was unforgettable, and it was a very healing moment.
Kent C. Williamson: In Vets With A Mission’s early years the Vietnamese government, although closed in some areas and restricted in others about religion or faith being shared by Americans, would let Vets With A Mission do things in exchange for medical team assistance or the building of a health clinic. Here are a few of those stories…
Dave Carlson: We were traveling with a van driver across the Mekong River, into a fairly remote part of Vietnam called Bac Lieu.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…
Dave Carlson: This van driver had been chosen by the government. He was not to interact with us. He was really only there as a perfunctory – we have to have somebody driving us. And he was Buddhist. And he would stand by the side as we’d make our rest stops, and we’d go in and we’d get a bottle of water. And we’d be laughing with the people who were selling. We would be telling jokes as best we could. Just – human interaction. And we’re driving, and the translator comes up to me, grabs me by the collar and says, “This man wants what you have.” I said, “He wants my money?” He says, “No, no. This man wants whatever joy it is that’s in all of you in this van. He’s been driving for years. He has never seen people with such joy on the inside. That they would somehow release everything in their life and just pour love out to other people.” The van driver wants that. I said, “He’s in luck, we’ve got a van full of pastors. We’ve got pastors here who can…” And the translator pulled me by the collar and says, “No. He wants you to tell him what it is that’s going on.” “I’m a CPA, I don’t do this for a living. Okay, fine.” And we talked about Jesus. And we talked about the joy that will fill your life as you release the tensions of this world, and turn it over to him. Anyway, the van driver said, “We must pray.” And I’m watching the traffic coming at us, and I go, “Yeah, I’d like to do a little prayer right now. I want to pray that we survive.” He says, “No, he wants you to pray with him now, to help him accept Jesus.” “Well, I am not worthy of this. This is nothing I’ve done. This is my friends. They’re more qualified.” “No, it’s you.” And so we prayed while driving, what seemed to be 130 miles an hour between mopeds in this van, for this man to accept Christ. And I was overwhelmed, but that was an amazing experience.
The last one I’ll tell you about… we were meeting with the underground church in the Mekong River. At that point in time, the Vietnamese government was not friendly toward the Christian church in general. And so, this particular church would bring floating barges out into the middle of the Mekong, and lash together. And they would float down the Mekong River and have their services, and then they’d disperse – so that the local authorities wouldn’t be involved. And we come zooming up in this little skiff, and we’ve got six or seven pastors on board, and we’re gonna get to meet with this underground church. And several of them are gonna get to bring the message. The translator comes up, and he grabs me by the collar and says, “You will speak.” And I said, “No. We’ve got qualified people here. They’ve come thousands of miles, they’re here to preach.” He says, “No, you will preach.” And I’m thinking, “Lord, what are you doing?” And I reached back to something I remember as a kid, and I stood up there, and began to talk about that, “When you make a commitment, it’s got to be public. And that it’s gonna cost you something. You may have a family that’s not agreeing with your personal beliefs. It’s gonna cost you something with them. You’ve got a government that does not really want these beliefs to be spread among these people. It’s gonna cost you something. And here we are on this boat right now, and we’re safe. But if you do decide to turn your life over to Christ, the commitment is gonna be real, and it’s gonna cost you something. But the benefits far outweigh anything you can even imagine.” Well, I don’t know what the translator said. I have no idea what he was actually teaching these people. And maybe he never translated a single word. And I know that whatever words I had didn’t come from me, because I said, “Lord it’s yours – I have no idea. I should be telling these people how to file their income taxes.” But, at that moment when we got done, they began to rise up. And the translator turned to me and said, “They want to be baptized.” And, “Lord, oh my goodness.” He says, “You will get in the river and baptize them now.” And I said, “Okay, I’m drawing the line guys. I’ve got six pastors sitting here who’ve come 10,000 miles to have this experience. And I don’t know why I’m here right now, but you have got to let these men baptize these people.” 200 people got off that boat that afternoon, and were baptized in the middle of the Mekong River. And I just was sat down and I cried, I just cried. I never thought I would have an opportunity to be involved in ministry. Never thought I’d have an opportunity to share my faith. Never thought I would see anything, and yet – for whatever reason, was given an opportunity to see an incredible site. It was one of the defining moments of my life, and I would say that was the best.
Kent C. Williamson: What was your best day going back? What was your best memory?
Chuck Ward: One of my favorites is probably one where Joette and I had met a Vietnamese woman – young woman – really was my wife’s friend.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: We kind of befriended her, and she had a shop near China Beach. And so, we became friends with her, particularly my wife. The friendship grew into – almost like family over 8, 9 years. And of course, we shared the gospel with her when we could. I tried to do it mostly by example and Joette was able to just share things with her woman to woman. And one time during a difficult time in her life, she asked me a lot of questions about Jesus and about this faith we have – being a Christian. And I knew a Vietnamese pastor from America, who happened to be in Vietnam at the same time as I was, and he was in Da Nang. And I asked him to go by and talk with her – ’cause I thought she was ready to hear the gospel. That was early in the day, and later that day in the afternoon, Joette and I went to Ho Chi Minh City, Saigon. And we’re at a grocery store on the second floor of the Tax Trade Center, buying some snacks and things and we get a call on our mobile phone. And it’s our friend and she’s crying. And, between the sobs, she proceeds to tell us that she’s just been baptized in the river in Hoi An and she has come out of the water, and she just can’t stop crying, she feels so good. Well Joette and I start crying, right there in the grocery store. And this Vietnamese staff person comes up to me and says, “Sir, I’m sorry is there something I can do? What is wrong?” And I didn’t know what to tell her. I didn’t want to tell her that this person had accepted Christ, because I didn’t know what kind of person she was. Or if she was a government person. And I remember, I said, “No, everything’s okay, I’m just happy that I found the Oreos.”
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film. You can also watch By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.
You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com. The film will screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. I hope to see you there.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.
Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 09 – The Amazing Impact of Vets With A Mission
PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Dave Carlson, Phil Carney, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Jim Proctor, Steve Scott, Bill Steele, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans describe the impact they have in Vietnam through their work with Vets With A Mission, but we also hear about the impact that Vietnam now has on them.
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
