Cal Dunham

US Wings Website – Average age of US soldier during Vietnam War was 22

Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

Huffington Post – Blog Article – “What Is Your Legacy?” by Katherine Meadowcroft

By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!

May 10, 2017

Episode 10 — Reconciliation: With Self, Vietnam, and Former Enemies

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SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator?

TEASER — Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together.

INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: The word “reconciliation” seems antiquated in this present age of divisiveness and polarization. It’s a word that has fallen from the common man’s lexicon into the pile of unused, unneeded, unspoken linguistic terms and expressions. In a world where friendships come and go, but where enemies can last a lifetime, it shouldn’t be surprising that “reconciliation” is seldom heard or spoken. After all, people might feel obligated to make and keep room in our vocabularies for such valuable phrases as “go to hell”, “F-you”, and “If I see you again before I die, it will be too soon.” But fortunately, that’s not the case for the Vietnam veterans we’ve been following in this series.

Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. In the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… and today we’ll hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, which, of course, is the result of a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.

But before we jump into today’s episode, allow me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the online store for Paladin Pictures. It’s the place to go to purchase any of Paladin’s films including the documentary By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on the By War & By God DVD. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and what’s that word? Oh yeah, reconciliation.

In today’s episode we’ll see what reconciliation looks like. What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and ultimately with your Creator? Alright, here we go…

Bill Steele: One of the most interesting things I experienced, there was a – there was a man on the team that I was on, who was a Vietnam Veteran, but had never really experienced closure.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bill Steele…

Bill Steele: He had been involved in a battle on the Mekong Delta, where a number of the people in his outfit had been killed. And Bill was still struggling with that, and while we were over there, he got a chance to go up the Mekong Delta, and actually went to the spot where this ambush had taken place. And after he returned from the Mekong Delta, he called his wife and they had a conversation on the phone, and she said, “You have just given me the 4 sweetest words I have ever heard from you.” And he said, “I just said 3 words. I said, ‘I love you.’” She said, “No, you said something else. You said, ‘my war is over.'” And that was, that was really something significant to me to hear this man say that – that was closure for him. And so, he was able to make that reconciliation with his past, and I think that was significant.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: In the 1800’s, an Americas great poets wrote a few lines called Reconciliation. Perhaps we can learn something from his perspective…

POEM: Reconciliation by Walt Whitman

WORD over all, beautiful as the sky!

Beautiful that war, and all its deeds of carnage, must in time be utterly lost;

That the hands of the sisters Death and Night, incessantly softly wash again, and ever again, this soil’d world:

For my enemy is dead—a man divine as myself is dead;

I look where he lies, white-faced and still, in the coffin—I draw near;

I bend down, and touch lightly with my lips the white face in the coffin.

Kent C. Williamson: What do you think reconciliation means? How would you define that?

Bill Steele: Reconciliation, I think has a couple of different interpretations as far as Vets With A Mission is concerned.

Kent C. Williamson: Again, Bill Steele…

Bill Steele: One obviously is I think that many of the veterans had the opportunity to reconcile with their past and to perhaps undergo a healing experience. And then there is the fact that we were at odds with this country. We were fighting one another, and now we’ve had the opportunity to be reconciled with them. To be able to help them – to help them overcome some of the difficulties that they’re experiencing in their country.

Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation and forgiveness are not the same thing.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: Jesus himself forgave everybody he ran into, but there’s not one person in the scriptures that ever asked Jesus for forgiveness. He automatically gave it. Reconciliation is more than that, reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together. And our work in Vietnam could not be accomplished unless the government and the soldiers that we fought against allowed us to work together with them. We’ve accomplished some very powerful and dynamic things in Vietnam over the years, and that only came about because people that we met that we built relationships with partnered with us and allowed us to work with them in rebuilding and reestablishing—if it was health care or whatever it was in Vietnam that we were doing, orphanage work. So there was a partnering, and that’s what reconciliation is.

Cal Dunham: Reconciliation to me, as I look at what we’ve done in Vietnam, I have seen 2 or 3 things really that stand out.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: I have seen reconciliation with just the people of Vietnam. Those that we’re serving – when we’re helping them, we’re just looking at each other as people that are helping each other. So I see a reconciliation there. I don’t see an animosity of them toward us or us toward them. I have seen reconciliation with former enemies, where we have sat down at a table for dinner together. VC, NVA sitting on one side of the table, and a bunch of us sitting on the other side of the table. Just, in our way that we can communicate through interpreters or through broken english or whatever – being able to talk to one another. And I see the realization from both sides of that table. From the – by the end of the evening that we all had a mission, but now quite frankly – we’re just a bunch of old farts sitting there having a beer together and talking about the old days. For me – I have never seen anything, “Oh man I can’t wait to get out of here.” I just sit there and say, “Hey, this is great. This is great, ’cause – hey, we did what we did. And we both were doing it because – for whatever reason, our governments were telling us, ‘this is what we’re gonna do.’ But now, that’s all behind us. Let’s just have a good time.” And then the third part of that reconciliation, I’ve seen – I know, because it happened to me. I was able to reconcile in my own heart and mind some guilt that I had. Such a strong negative attitude toward the Vietnamese themselves – not just soldiers, but everybody. I’ve been able to reconcile that. There’s been a reconciliation in my own heart and mind, my soul, about the people of Vietnam. So that’s what it means to me, those – basically those 3 areas.

Kent C. Williamson: Define reconciliation for me. What does that look like?

BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: But first, Do you know that you can go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission? Yes, you! Whether or not you’re a Vietnam veteran, whether or not you’re a medical professional, you can experience some of the thrill of serving, of caring for the people in the rural villages of that beautiful country. You can experience reconciliation for yourself. Learn more about the upcoming trips at Vets With A Mission dot org and start making your plans today. Alright, back to the show…

Kent C. Williamson: Define reconciliation for me. What does that look like?

Dave Carlson: Reconciliation to me means – taking people who have diametrically opposed vision or purpose…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…

Dave Carlson: …but finding those parts of what they are or what they do that can be aligned to work in tandem to go forward. We all know that two opposing forces meet, they don’t go anywhere, they just sit there and grind. But somehow, even people who are diametrically opposed at some point, can find a place where they agree, and where they can become brothers. And can make positive movement. And those two opposing forces go alongside, and move in a positive direction. That to me is one definition of reconciliation – there’s a lot of different ones. But in this case, we have former combatants who would actually sit down with each other and plan out what they could do to both improve the country, and improve the lives of the people who are the children of those that they fought. And that to me is reconciliation.

Kent C. Williamson: What does reconciliation mean?

Jim Proctor: When I talked to Bill Kimble in the early years, and some of the early board members, it was a two pronged process.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Jim Proctor…

Jim Proctor: They wanted to reconcile to some extent – especially the Vietnam Vets, with their experience over there, with the people. And at the same time, they wanted their people to recognize that there was a further reconciliation. And that’s reconciliation with Jesus Christ. And because Vets With A Mission has worked in a communist country, we sometimes have to downplay or be a little bit more discreet in the reconciliation of Jesus Christ. I think that’s where – just working one on one, or working on a project with someone – establishing a relationship is. I think for some of the Vets that have gone over there, it has certainly helped them to reconnect with the people, to see areas that they may have served in. I am so thankful that I didn’t have to fight a war over there. And it’s interesting when I’ve asked veterans – friends of mine if they want to go back, there’s no middle ground. There is either, “I’ve always wanted to go back, I love the people, I love the food, the country was beautiful.” Or there are people that don’t even want me to finish the question in a sentence. They’d say, “No way do I ever want to go back.” And I’m sure that’s related directly to their experience and what they experienced in the Vietnam War. And I have seen people that have had a certain hesitancy on these trips going back. They don’t know what to expect. And I know that that’s been important for them to go back there and see that, and see where they were at, and experience that again. And that helps them. It helps them with the issues in their life.

Bob Peragallo: I met a man in the Que Son Valley who – a Mr. Som. And he was the chairman of the People’s committee.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: And we built one of our early clinics in the Que Son Valley. And to do that there’s a lot of meetings that have to be attended, there’s a lot of preliminary handshaking. We have to have a beer together, we meet the People’s committee.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: The clinic that Bob Peragallo helped build for Mr. Som’s commune was the one he told us about in last week’s episode. As you recall, the area had a childbirth death rate of 33% and after Vets With A Mission’s clinic opened the death rate during childbirth dropped to just 3%.

Bob Peragallo: And we were having dinner together with the members of the People’s committee and a small group of us from Vets With A Mission. And we shook hands, and Mr. Som had a wooden leg, and I asked him how he lost his leg, if he’d lost it in a war. And he said, “Yes,” that a – he got shot by a machine gun. And so, we sat down and through the interpreters we were having this communication. And I told the interpreter I said, “Would you tell Mr. Som that I was a machine gunner. And the interpreter didn’t want to do it, and it got real quiet and everybody got hushed. And the Vietnamese around us through the interpreter knew what was going on. And finally I just said, “Tell him.” And so he told Mr. Som that I was a machine gunner and that I served in the Que Son Valley with the 9th marines. And I looked over at Mr. Som, and he smiled and kind of grinned a little bit, and then I told the interpreter. I, I said that, “I’d like to see how Mr. Som that I might have been the one that shot his leg off. And I don’t want to say that I’m sorry for doing that, but I want Mr. Som to know and understand that the war is over and at one time we – we could have been and probably were former enemies, and engaged in combat. But now we’re here together, working together to improve the quality of health care for his, for his commune. And Mr. Som stood up, and he shook my hand. And Mr. Som hugged me. And we embraced each other, and that was the dynamic moment in my Vietnam experience with Vets With A Mission.

When I talked with Mr. Som, in my experience with him. I know that I had forgiven him as an enemy before I ever spoke anything, before it had ever come out of me. It was something that happened deep inside of me, and the end result was that we embraced. And as as fellow warriors there was an honor, and there was something between us.

Chuck Ward: You may or may not know, but the founding scriptural foundation for Vets With A Mission, is 2nd Corinthians 5:18 – which is the Ministry of Reconciliation.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Nearly 2000 years ago, the Apostle Paul wrote a couple of letters to the people who were the church in the town of Corinth. In his second letter he wrote the part that Chuck Ward referred to which says this… “if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Chuck Ward: So Vets With A Mission has always been about reconciling people to one another. And in this context, country to country, Vet to Vet. And I’m talking about Americans, South Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, NVA. And I’m talking about people of Vietnam to the people of the United States. And most importantly, being reconciled to God. So Vets With A Mission, for many years would take American Veterans and introduce them to Viet Cong and NVA veterans at what we call reconciliation dinners. And it’s always very tense when those dinners start. But 99.9% of the time, the Veterans on each side of that table – by the time that dinner is over, they’ve got this special bond. And it’s not about winning the war or killing your enemy. It gets down to the lowest common denominator. Men begin telling one another, “I was just doing my job. I was doing what I was told to do. And I didn’t necessarily like it, but I did it, because I wanted to serve my country.” And soon these men who have issues – I mean, no one goes to war that they come back the same person, it just doesn’t happen. They begin to share, and it’s a very emotional time, and reconciliation becomes real. Because men who would have never thought of talking to one another – are talking about their families, talking about their children, talking about, “Let’s have a beer together, let’s get in touch, let’s keep in touch.” It takes place. And one of the most wonderful things about reconciliation is, you know, a lot of people struggled with Vietnam, particularly the Vets who served there. And through reconciliation, this is what happens. So many are stuck in the past, and they have so many terrible memories. And I like to make the analogy that Vietnam is like the pig in the pigsty. You’ve got the pig, and the pig is happy to be wallowing in that mud and filth and everything. And so, I make the analogy that – Vietnam is the pig, and you can go in there, and you’ve gotta wrestle with that pig – and you’re gonna come out smelling and looking like you know what. But that pig is gonna come out smiling and feeling good about itself. So why let Vietnam – why wrestle with the pig of Vietnam, and let it have that effect on you? Let it run your life, ruin your life. It’s time to move on. And through reconciliation, that’s what happens. Vets go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission. They meet their former enemy, they meet the people. And reconciliation comes full circle from the terrible memories of 1968 or 1969, to discovering the war is really over. And through reconciliation, that war within is finally over. And when I see Vets – when that lightbulb goes off, when they’re in Vietnam on one of our teams, and they realize the war is over – not only there, but over inside. It makes – that is a great day to be in Vietnam, on a Vets With A Mission Team.

Kent C. Williamson: One more time, Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: When the scriptures talk about God reconciling the world to himself. It’s not just that he forgave us of our sins. It’s us learning to work together with Him for the purpose of establishing His, his kingdom. We become partners with Him, and reconciliation is that. That we learn to work together—former enemies that were trying to kill each other, now are working together to build and repair the tragedy of war. The tragedy of, of such a, a horrible experience, out of it comes something that’s positive and good.

CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film. You can also watch By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.

The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter… except he’s missing today, so I don’t know if we need to credit him. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.

Special thanks to Trevor Przyuski for his wonderful reading of the Walt Whitman poem Reconciliation. Thanks Trevor!

The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.

Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.

By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.

And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!

EPISODE 10 – Reconciliation: With Self, Vietnam, and Former Enemies

PLAYERS: Dave Carlson, Cal Dunham, Jim Proctor, Bob Peragallo, Bill Steele, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson

SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator?

LINKS:

Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!

May 3, 2017

Episode 09 — The Amazing Impact Of Vets With A Mission

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SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans describe the impact they have in Vietnam through their work with Vets With A Mission, but we also hear about the impact that Vietnam now has on them.

TEASER — Cal Dunham: I tell you, a smile goes a long way. I can be hot and sweaty and miserable, but when that person looks at me and smiles, and in their smile they’re saying “Thank you”. It doesn’t get any better than that.

INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: One of the definitions of the verb “impact” reads, to “have a strong effect on someone or something.” The Vietnam war had an impact on our veterans. A handful of these veterans returned to Vietnam and had an impact on the people of Vietnam. The people of Vietnam then, in turn, had an impact on these veterans.

Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. And, by the way, I’m very pleased to announce that just this week we won another one. We picked up the Best Documentary Short Film Award at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma. Thank you Bare Bones! This season on the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… and soon we’re going to hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, which, of course, is the result of a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.

But before we jump into today’s episode, let me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the online store for Paladin Pictures. It’s the place to go to purchase any of Paladin’s films including your copy of the documentary By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on By War & By God. And remember that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and reconciliation.

Today, we’ll learn about The Amazing Impact of Vets With A Mission. And we’ll also learn about the impact that the impact has had on those doing the impacting…

Kent C. Williamson: Of your seven trips back to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission, what would you say is your best memory?

Pat Cameron: Well, the best memory is the first trip…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…

Pat Cameron: The Lion’s Club had given me about 10,000 pair of eyeglasses and quite a few pair of sunglasses. And we were going to start seeing patients. And I was going to go through all the eyewear – separated the mens and ladies and children – and I was going to be able to try to match that prescription up as close as I could. And provide them with some eyewear so they could read and see. I had this feeling that maybe something cool – something neat’s going to happen. Maybe the Lord going to do something to really show me a miracle. Here I am asking for a miracle. And it’s my first time over there. Well it’s five o’clock their time – we’re getting ready to – we’re seeing our last patients. And the last patients is a 7-year old girl. Tim came downstairs with her mother and said, “I doubt we can do much for her, Pat” And he handed me that prescription and it was for bottle-cap-type glasses; about +10 power. And he said, “I know you ain’t got anything.” I went over there and there was a set of kid’s glasses that were bottle-caps, +10’s, within very close to her prescription. And I pulled those out – I looked at them but I ain’t got no idea how them glasses got in there. And I put those glasses on that little girl and – her eyes were already a little large for the – with the eyewear but they got huge. And she said something in Vietnamese to her mother and her mother looked over at me and started crying. And my translator said, “This child has never seen her mother. And she never seen anything except blurriness – pretty much light, dark, and blurry.” She could see leaves, she could see – she’d never seen stars. She’d never seen her daddy or her sisters and brothers. And if that ain’t a miracle, there never going to be one. I sit there and cried with her mother. That life of that child and that family – and maybe that whole village when they heard the stories – changed. It changed me. That made it perfectly clear to me why I was sent. And that’s probably why I’ve come back so many times. Because I know that every time we go back we can make an impact. That’s a moment that will never leave me. I’ve told the story a number of times to people. It’s just a cool story. Just a cool story.

Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your best day with Vets With A Mission.

Steve Scott: They’re all good. It’s all good.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Steve Scott

Steve Scott: I am most comfortable when I’m hot and sweaty and out in a Montagnard village with people that I know need my help.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: A leftover term from the French Colonial era in Vietnam, Montagnard means “people of the mountain”. These indigenous people groups occupy the Central Highland area of Vietnam. Influenced by French Missionaries during the 19^th century and American missionaries during the 1930’s many Montagnards converted to Christianity. This caused them to be viewed as suspect by North Vietnamese forces during the Vietnam War. Estimates are that over 40,000 Montagnards fought alongside the American forces, but when America withdrew from Vietnam in April of 1975, these Montagnards were left to defend themselves. As a result, many were put to death by the communist regime while many others fled the country in an attempt to save their lives.

Steve Scott: I am most comfortable when I’m hot and sweaty and out in a Montagnard village with people that I know need my help. Be it a seven year old that needs a heart operation – and I’m the guy. I do triage, so I see these people first. First person that sees them, and sometimes I’ll have this kid come in with club nails and they’re cyanotic, and I know full well they need heart surgery and I’m the guy that can send them to the doctor and get it started and we can save that kids life. So, I mean, that’s priceless. I also feel just as good if an old lady comes in and she’s got aches and pains and I can talk to her, and I can speak enough Vietnamese to talk to her and find out that – you know, I can relieve her pain. I can make her feel better when she goes home. So, yeah, those are the priceless things. So, I don’t particular care for staying in the four star hotels, or any of the tourist stuff anymore. I’ve been there, done that. I really like to go out in the villages. I suppose, if I could do anything I wanted, I’d just be the barefoot doctor who wanders around Southeast Asia with a backpack full of medicine.

Jim Proctor: I would say that my best day in Vietnam’s probably one of the hardest days in Vietnam.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Jim Proctor…

Jim Proctor: I was working security. Again, it’s a communist country, they’d pretty much decide who can come in and who can’t come in. And they have to have the right paperwork and everything. And it was very tough when you could see the desperation in some of these people’s faces. That they wanted to get in and they wanted to see the American doctors. And they had an issue, and they wanted to get healed. We could only let certain people in, and that was very tough. And there were – sometimes ladies that looked like they were in their 80’s, certainly maybe in their 60’s and 70’s crawling over barbed wire fences, or trying to get over the gates with the little pointed arrow type things that are to keep people out. And actually having to pick them up and put them outside of the gate because they couldn’t get in. And that was, that was tough – but at the same time, that is something that has stuck with me. It really affected how I felt about it, and the desperation, and can relate to that. And so, while that is one of the – probably the toughest day, I think it was one of the best in the fact that it really humanized that for me. We’re affecting people’s lives.

Bill Steele: The people who were able to take advantage of what we were offering had been invited by the Vietnamese government to come. They had to have it – it was invitation only. And this lady showed up and she didn’t have an invitation.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bill Steele…

Bill Steele: She had a little baby with her, a little girl that was probably a year, year and a half old that was sick. And she wanted medical attention for this child. And she saw me, and she knew I had to be somebody, because I obviously wasn’t Vietnamese. And she came up to me, and she approached me – because we couldn’t communicate language-wise, but she helped me to understand that she needed medical attention for her child. And I felt – I was able to take her to one of the Vietnamese doctors and to explain the situation, and get the child looked at. And it just, it was so heartwarming I think to be able to do a little something that was perhaps above and beyond the call of what we were supposed to be doing there.

Kent C. Williamson: What would you say is your best experience with Vets With A Mission?

BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: But first, Do you know that you can go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission? Yes, you! Whether or not you’re a Vietnam veteran, whether or not you’re a medical professional, you can experience some of the thrill of serving, of caring for the people in the rural villages of that beautiful country. Learn more about the upcoming trips at Vets With A Mission dot org and start making your plans today. Alright, back to the show…

Kent C. Williamson: What would you say is your best experience with Vets With A Mission?

Cal Dunham: My best experience with Vets With A Mission…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: As strange as this sounds – the joy of carrying a little old lady – or a man, or a little boy, that needs to get up the stairs to see the doctor. Or get down the hallway to see the doctor in the clinic. Of picking them up and holding them, to get them where they need to get, if they can’t do it on their own. And they just look at you, and smile. I tell you, a smile goes a long way. I can be hot and sweaty and miserable, but when that person looks at me and smiles, and in their smile they’re saying “Thank you”. It doesn’t get any better than that.

Kent C. Williamson: As you recall from last episode In the early days of the organization, Vets With A Mission, helped build a therapy pool for a polio orphanage in Saigon. This is Roger Helle…

Roger Helle: We met a couple that were married with two children.

Kent C. Williamson: Both the husband and the wife had polio.

Roger Helle: There was just something about the, it was actually the husband. Here he is, he’s got polio, his children did not. And so, I asked them, where they met – and they had met at the orphanage when they were children.

Kent C. Williamson: The same orphanage in Saigon where Roger had been years before.

Roger Helle: For years now I carried little happy face stickers in my pocket. And so I looked at them and said, “When you were a child, do you remember some Americans coming to your orphanage?” And I held up one of the little stickers and both of them, their eyes just got big and they said, “Yes.” And I said, “That was us.” And just the fact that, full circle, 20 years later -because of an act of kindness – we couldn’t share the gospel in words. I think it was Francis of Assisi said, “Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words.” And while we could not use words to share the love of Christ, we did it in acts of kindness. And here was that couple 20 years later that had come full circle. And we had come full circle as a ministry – and that was probably one of the most exciting days that I can remember. You know, he had the same smile he had when he was a 10 year old kid. And here now, they were believers and they were going to a church that Vets With A Mission supported in Saigon. And 20 years after we met them as children in a polio orphanage, now here they had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ – and married and in the church that we were supporting. God has an incredible sense of bringing things to your awareness, to let you know that what you’re doing is making a difference.

Kent C. Williamson: What’s the best memory of your experiences going back?

Phil Carney: Wow, well I guess my best and most impacting memory going back was the first trip.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…

Phil Carney: We were out at Marble Mountain. We had come into a real large village full of people. It occurred to me that during the war something really significant had happened in that village – or near that village. What had happened back in 1970 when I was there was – we were out on a small operation, and we had stopped to have lunch, and our squad leader had told us to break out chow – C-rations and so on. And I had a can of C-rations in my hand.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: C-rations or Type C-rations were pre-cooked individual meals ready to be eaten out in the field, straight from the can. Other types of rations include A-rations… meals for troops that are prepared with fresh, refrigerated, or frozen ingredients, B-rations… meals for troops prepared with canned or preserved ingredients, K-rations which contained three meals to cover an entire day and provided up to 3000 calories for airborne troops, tank corps, and other mobile units, and D-rations which were chocolate bars designed, with the help of Hershey’s Chocolate, not to melt.

Phil Carney: And I had a can of C-rations in my hand. And I remember just sitting on my helmet and looking at this can of C-rations and this old mama-san had found her way and she got up behind me and she tapped me on the shoulder – and it just startled me. And I remember standing up and spinning around, and I had that can of C-rations in my hand. And I was so angry at her because she scared me and startled me. And I, just out of my anger and frustration, I took that can of C-Rations and I threw it at her. And I hit her right in the chest, I hit her as hard as I could with that can of C-Rations, and she just crumbled right in front of me; knocked the breath out of her. I remember she reached and grabbed that can of C-rations, picked it up, got back up on her feet, bowed, and said thank you, and hobbled off. It was one of those moments where you go “Boy, you didn’t know that was in you.” So in 1989 on my first trip back to Vietnam, we’re in this village near where this incident happened in 1970. And all of these people are coming out of the village, and they’re figuring out these are Americans and they were here during the war. I remember a lady came out that would have been our age now, but she worked in the laundry on the Da Nang air base during the war. And all she could remember was English slang words from the war, from the ’60s. And I remember her running out and trying to communicate with us and she was saying “You are groovy, you are psychedelic, Jimi Hendrix, far out man.” And those kinds of things were going on, and everybody was having a moment. And many of these Vietnamese were coming out and they were presenting us with things they had kept from the war. The flag, remember one person came out and gave a chevron, a corporal rank of a corporal chevron to one of the guys – that this person had had since the war. And the best thing that happened to me on any of the trips was in that moment, and there were hundreds of people everywhere, and it was such a God moment. That a lady came up to me – a lady. And this lady handed me an old, empty, wore out can of C-rations – and she handed it to me. And I remember standing there looking at that, and that moment was the most incredible moment. It couldn’t have been more real if Jesus himself had been standing there, and handed me the can of C-rations. It was if I went back in time to 1970 when I was an 18 year old kid standing there, and doing what I did. That was without a doubt the best day, and the best trip with Vets With A Mission. That was unforgettable, and it was a very healing moment.

Kent C. Williamson: In Vets With A Mission’s early years the Vietnamese government, although closed in some areas and restricted in others about religion or faith being shared by Americans, would let Vets With A Mission do things in exchange for medical team assistance or the building of a health clinic. Here are a few of those stories…

Dave Carlson: We were traveling with a van driver across the Mekong River, into a fairly remote part of Vietnam called Bac Lieu.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…

Dave Carlson: This van driver had been chosen by the government. He was not to interact with us. He was really only there as a perfunctory – we have to have somebody driving us. And he was Buddhist. And he would stand by the side as we’d make our rest stops, and we’d go in and we’d get a bottle of water. And we’d be laughing with the people who were selling. We would be telling jokes as best we could. Just – human interaction. And we’re driving, and the translator comes up to me, grabs me by the collar and says, “This man wants what you have.” I said, “He wants my money?” He says, “No, no. This man wants whatever joy it is that’s in all of you in this van. He’s been driving for years. He has never seen people with such joy on the inside. That they would somehow release everything in their life and just pour love out to other people.” The van driver wants that. I said, “He’s in luck, we’ve got a van full of pastors. We’ve got pastors here who can…” And the translator pulled me by the collar and says, “No. He wants you to tell him what it is that’s going on.” “I’m a CPA, I don’t do this for a living. Okay, fine.” And we talked about Jesus. And we talked about the joy that will fill your life as you release the tensions of this world, and turn it over to him. Anyway, the van driver said, “We must pray.” And I’m watching the traffic coming at us, and I go, “Yeah, I’d like to do a little prayer right now. I want to pray that we survive.” He says, “No, he wants you to pray with him now, to help him accept Jesus.” “Well, I am not worthy of this. This is nothing I’ve done. This is my friends. They’re more qualified.” “No, it’s you.” And so we prayed while driving, what seemed to be 130 miles an hour between mopeds in this van, for this man to accept Christ. And I was overwhelmed, but that was an amazing experience.

The last one I’ll tell you about… we were meeting with the underground church in the Mekong River. At that point in time, the Vietnamese government was not friendly toward the Christian church in general. And so, this particular church would bring floating barges out into the middle of the Mekong, and lash together. And they would float down the Mekong River and have their services, and then they’d disperse – so that the local authorities wouldn’t be involved. And we come zooming up in this little skiff, and we’ve got six or seven pastors on board, and we’re gonna get to meet with this underground church. And several of them are gonna get to bring the message. The translator comes up, and he grabs me by the collar and says, “You will speak.” And I said, “No. We’ve got qualified people here. They’ve come thousands of miles, they’re here to preach.” He says, “No, you will preach.” And I’m thinking, “Lord, what are you doing?” And I reached back to something I remember as a kid, and I stood up there, and began to talk about that, “When you make a commitment, it’s got to be public. And that it’s gonna cost you something. You may have a family that’s not agreeing with your personal beliefs. It’s gonna cost you something with them. You’ve got a government that does not really want these beliefs to be spread among these people. It’s gonna cost you something. And here we are on this boat right now, and we’re safe. But if you do decide to turn your life over to Christ, the commitment is gonna be real, and it’s gonna cost you something. But the benefits far outweigh anything you can even imagine.” Well, I don’t know what the translator said. I have no idea what he was actually teaching these people. And maybe he never translated a single word. And I know that whatever words I had didn’t come from me, because I said, “Lord it’s yours – I have no idea. I should be telling these people how to file their income taxes.” But, at that moment when we got done, they began to rise up. And the translator turned to me and said, “They want to be baptized.” And, “Lord, oh my goodness.” He says, “You will get in the river and baptize them now.” And I said, “Okay, I’m drawing the line guys. I’ve got six pastors sitting here who’ve come 10,000 miles to have this experience. And I don’t know why I’m here right now, but you have got to let these men baptize these people.” 200 people got off that boat that afternoon, and were baptized in the middle of the Mekong River. And I just was sat down and I cried, I just cried. I never thought I would have an opportunity to be involved in ministry. Never thought I’d have an opportunity to share my faith. Never thought I would see anything, and yet – for whatever reason, was given an opportunity to see an incredible site. It was one of the defining moments of my life, and I would say that was the best.

Kent C. Williamson: What was your best day going back? What was your best memory?

Chuck Ward: One of my favorites is probably one where Joette and I had met a Vietnamese woman – young woman – really was my wife’s friend.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…

Chuck Ward: We kind of befriended her, and she had a shop near China Beach. And so, we became friends with her, particularly my wife. The friendship grew into – almost like family over 8, 9 years. And of course, we shared the gospel with her when we could. I tried to do it mostly by example and Joette was able to just share things with her woman to woman. And one time during a difficult time in her life, she asked me a lot of questions about Jesus and about this faith we have – being a Christian. And I knew a Vietnamese pastor from America, who happened to be in Vietnam at the same time as I was, and he was in Da Nang. And I asked him to go by and talk with her – ’cause I thought she was ready to hear the gospel. That was early in the day, and later that day in the afternoon, Joette and I went to Ho Chi Minh City, Saigon. And we’re at a grocery store on the second floor of the Tax Trade Center, buying some snacks and things and we get a call on our mobile phone. And it’s our friend and she’s crying. And, between the sobs, she proceeds to tell us that she’s just been baptized in the river in Hoi An and she has come out of the water, and she just can’t stop crying, she feels so good. Well Joette and I start crying, right there in the grocery store. And this Vietnamese staff person comes up to me and says, “Sir, I’m sorry is there something I can do? What is wrong?” And I didn’t know what to tell her. I didn’t want to tell her that this person had accepted Christ, because I didn’t know what kind of person she was. Or if she was a government person. And I remember, I said, “No, everything’s okay, I’m just happy that I found the Oreos.”

You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com. The film will screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. I hope to see you there.

The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.

Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.

By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.

And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!

EPISODE 09 – The Amazing Impact of Vets With A Mission

PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Dave Carlson, Phil Carney, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Jim Proctor, Steve Scott, Bill Steele, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson

SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans describe the impact they have in Vietnam through their work with Vets With A Mission, but we also hear about the impact that Vietnam now has on them.

LINKS:

Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!

April 19, 2017

Episode 07 — Going Back To Vietnam

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SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans sense a call to go back to Vietnam to do good and Vets With A Mission is born.

TEASER — Pat Cameron: From day one from when I walked off the place and just saw the people. Smelt the air; smelt what was in the air there. Smelt the… the country. It’s what — I just knew that it was different.

INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: When the Vietnam War ended and our Veterans came home to America, some of them swore they’d never return to Vietnam. For some the pain was just too much. For others they got out alive and they wouldn’t be caught dead back in Vietnam. But a few of these Veterans soon started experiencing a growing desire to go back. At first it was just a thought. A thought that grew into a calling. They had unfinished business in Vietnam, they felt their story there was not yet complete, they wanted desperately to write another chapter; to do something to help the people in the land in which they fought.

Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. It’s a place where we can go deeper into the stories of the lives of these veterans than we’re able to in the film. This season we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… but you’ll also hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.

But before we get into the show, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the place to go to purchase the documentary By War & By God (and a few other films), so if you need a copy please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save some money on the film. How much money? One-hundred-thirteen-thousand-eight-hundred-and-fifty Vietnamese Dong… or five U.S. bucks. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why do they go back? For healing and reconciliation… and all the cool work you’ll be hearing about over the next few shows.

In today’s episode, we’re Going Back To Vietnam. Let’s jump right in…

Kent C. Williamson: What made you decide that you wanted to go back?

Phil Carney: Well, I think like many Vietnam vets…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…

Phil Carney: …after the war I did the typical thing, kind of spent a decade self-medicating, and had a lot of issues. But I always had it in my heart. I just always felt like I left Vietnam with unresolved issues. And it was always kind of an unspoken desire and dream, especially after I became a Christian — “Wouldn’t it just be great to go back and do something?” And I had no idea what that meant. And of course in that era of time, it was not a possibility, it wasn’t even a reasonable rational thought. Nobody went back to Vietnam. But I had it in my heart. And so when somebody, when this missionary approached me in a church service and made known to me there was an organization that was being developed called Vets With A Mission. And they were going to be able to possibly, actually go back to Vietnam, and take some vets back to Vietnam and just see what they can do. It just so matched what was in my heart. And so I was just all in.

Bob Peragallo: My reaction to it all was both a very natural, physical draw but yet at the same time I knew and understand – understood – that my faith was involved in it.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: My faith could not sit on a church step. That my faith could not just be an inactive component of who I was. I believe decisions were made beyond myself that opened up opportunities for me to actively participate in returning to Vietnam. First out of curiosity, and that curiosity develops into purpose. And the first trip back was in 1988, and then the second trip was in January 1989 and from those two trips we felt that we needed to organize this and become a Humanitarian organization in Vietnam. And Vets With A Mission took off from then, and has been going up till today.

Kent C. Williamson: When did you first learn about Vets With A Mission?

BREAK: But first… Did you serve in Vietnam? Would you ever consider going back? I’d like to know, so please tell me why you would or why your wouldn’t. Record your response on your phone and email it to me, or if you prefer typing, go for it. You can send it to me at Kent at By War And By God dot com that’s Kent… K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to hearing why you would or wouldn’t go back to Vietnam. And we might put some of your stories into a future episode. Now back to the show…

Kent C. Williamson: When did you first learn about Vets With A Mission? This is Roger Helle…

Roger Helle: I first learned about Vets With A Mission in 1988. I was invited to go Focus On The Family in California – Doctor James Dobson. And when we were there we were gonna tape a series of three programs dealing with how Vietnam affected people and then how that affected the family. And there were three veterans on the panel, myself, another gentleman, and Bill Kimball. And Doctor Dobson always takes people into a room and talks to them before he interviews them. And so he said to Bill, he said, “Bill, I understand you’ve just come back from a fact finding trip to Vietnam.” And he said, “Yeah,” and that was it. We went on and talked about other things. So afterwards I said to Bill and his wife Rosa, I said, “Can we take you guys out to dinner? And I want to hear more about what you did.” And so, that’s how I got introduced to Vets With A Mission. And that was in August 1988 – in January I was making my first trip and what I thought at that time, my only trip back to Vietnam.

Kent C. Williamson: And how many times have you been back since?

Roger Helle: I’ve made 17 trips back to Vietnam since I first went with Vets With A Mission in January of 1989.

Chuck Ward: In 1991, I’d gone to a conference for Vietnam Vets…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…

Chuck Ward: I was at a message board. I’d left my business card there. Because I’ve had this, this yearning to go back to Vietnam. Didn’t know how to do it. And so, I put a little note on the message board for all the veterans at the conference with my business card. And it just simply said, “Interested in going back to Vietnam to do something good. Call me.” And all my business cards were gone in 2 or 3 days, but no one ever called. So I went one more time before leaving the conference to check that message board. There was no messages, but this really tall guy was there, and it was Roger Helle. And he looked at me, and I looked at him, and he said, ”Well, I just came back from Vietnam 2 weeks ago.” And that’s how I met Vets With A Mission.

Roger Helle: The first trip we made back to Vietnam in January of 1989, there were 10 of us.

Kent C. Williamson: Again, Roger Helle…

Roger Helle: It was kind of an interesting trip, because the plane – they had us flying around in circles because they wouldn’t turn the runway lights on for some reason for security purposes. And so they had the plane land at the end of the runway and a truckload of soldiers armed with AK-47s came and walked through the plane upon landing before we were allowed to deplane just to let us know that we were not in Kansas anymore.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: Back in those days the – everything in Vietnam was minimal. Everybody was on the verge of disaster, everything was run down, the state of everything was just horrible.

Phil Carney: I was on the second trip that Vets With A Mission took back to Vietnam.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…

Phil Carney: There were 2 trips in ’89 and I was on the second trip late in the year. It was surreal. We couldn’t get Visas from the United States. Nobody was going to Vietnam, we couldn’t get Visas. So we actually got our Visas through Mexico. And we flew on Air France, it was the only airline that would fly, or that did fly into Vietnam – it was the only airline that flew. I remember landing at Tan Son Nhut Air Base in Saigon, and all of the old hangars were still there from the war. But, there was no airport. When we got off of the plane there was a metal hut sitting at the end of the runway that had an electrical cord hanging from the ceiling and a light bulb. And there was a Vietnamese soldier sitting in that with an AK-47 and he had no idea what to do with us. We showed him our passports, and he didn’t know what to do with them. There was no stamp. There was nobody – especially Americans, coming to Vietnam. And so it was just strange. The most overwhelming, or not overwhelming, but just strange was how quiet it was, and how minimal the activity was. The airbase, there was nobody there. There were no people there. And driving in to Saigon there were no cars. There were just a few people on bicycles. You could literally walk for blocks and just see a few people. There was nothing in the stores. The country was absolutely devastated, and there was just nothing there. I remember nobody believed that we were Americans, they thought we were Russian. And when we would show them our passport and explain to them, and convince them that we were from America, the reception was just overwhelming, and they were so excited to see Americans. And so those are some of the stand outs that I remember initially – how quiet it was, there was no air traffic compared to the war – there were planes and helicopters flying non-stop. There were people everywhere. It was noisy, it was loud. There was stuff going on, and it was so quiet, and so few people out on the streets.

Cal Dunham: The feelings I had going back to Vietnam ran a whole gamut.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: When I got off the airplane there were the military standing there with machine guns, rifles. And they were watching you as you got off the plane, processed through. And I must admit I remember quite vividly when I stepped through, there were three guys standing there, three Vietnamese army guys, standing there just giving me “the look”. And I looked at them, and I quite frankly thought, “I don’t know if we won or lost, but I could still kick your keister back to Hanoi.” And I had to say to myself, “Lord, this cannot be how I’m going to spend this summer in Vietnam. I’ve got to have something happen to me – that’s going to change me, so I don’t have those kind of feelings of hostility.” The first nights were very difficult because I could hear people outside my room, talking in Vietnamese. And it would bring back the memories that I remember – laying out in the jungle, in ambush in the middle of the night, hearing Vietnamese voices out in the jungle. I saw real quickly, that many of them were already past the war. I hadn’t progressed from it, but they had.

Kent C. Williamson: Let’s talk about going back. What was it like to return with Vets With A Mission?

BREAK: But first… We’re giving away the soundtrack to the film By War & By God, so if you like the music you’re hearing, go to By War And By God dot com, click on the Soundtrack item on the menu and download all 8 tracks of Will Musser’s great score. It’s free! I also want to say “thank you” for listening and I want to ask you to please tell a friend about us. Think about that person…. Who is it that needs to hear this podcast? Would you do me a favor and tell them? Thank you! And one more ask… would you please go to iTunes (or wherever you get your podcasts) and leave us a review. Your words will help others know that this show is worth listening to. All right, let’s get back to this episode…

Kent C. Williamson: Let’s talk about going back. What was it like to return with Vets With A Mission?

Pat Cameron: I had no idea what to expect when we went back.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…

Pat Cameron: I think I was excited. I think maybe I thought it was a calling from my Lord and Savior. I didn’t know really what to expect. From day one from when I walked off the place and just saw the people. Smelt the air; smelt what was in the air there. Smelt the… the country. It’s what — I just knew that it was different. I knew it was Communist. I could just see the – I could tell by the guards and by the guys carrying the guns at the airport. And by the way they were controlling things that it wasn’t like any other country that I had gone in with a Visa. I’d just – and then as the – we got settled in, I was – I’m pretty adventurous person and I started – I went out on the streets and walked. I got to feeling that – I didn’t feel – I felt comfortable. I didn’t feel like there was any anger. I felt like it was kind of safe. Didn’t feel any of that when I was 19 – promise you.

Chuck Ward: It was the summer of ’92 when I made my first trip with Vets With A Mission to go back to Vietnam and it was not that big of a deal.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…

Chuck Ward: I didn’t have any quote “issues” when I went back that time with Vets With A Mission. It was just – it was really a great trip and – a great trip. A lot of evidence of the war still. A lot of tanks and armored personnel carriers, and helicopters and things like that – all over the place. Lots of ordnance many, many craters. I mean, you could tell there was a war even though it was a little over 15 years since it was over. But it was the second trip to Vietnam, when I went back – 1994 – that surprised me very much. I really had issues with anger, survivor’s guilt. And that was a tough trip. And often I would get in these silly arguments with Vietnamese – were the goofiest things. I had sent a number of faxes to Bill Kimble, who was the president – founder of Vets With A Mission. He was in another city and I was kind of helping, leading a construction team. We communicated by fax in those days, no mobile phones. And at the end of the week, the hotel double charged me for the faxes. I mean, we’re talking about 25 or 50 cents here per fax. We’re not talking like $100. But, what I was dealing with, that pushed me over the edge, and I got into this huge argument with the Vietnamese on the other side of the registration desk at the hotel. It got so heated that I started to climb up on the desk, and one of the other team there from the Vets With A Mission, grabbed me by the back of the shirt, and pulled me down. And I blurted out, “You know, I think I shot your father.” I was so ticked off about that. That was a terrible thing to say. That was a terrible witness for Christ. But the survivors guilt, and the anger, the frustration I’d been holding in for a long time – over 20 years – finally came out that day.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Every Veteran has to deal with their Vietnam experience in their own way. Sometimes it comes out in anger, sometimes it comes out in fear. But two things these Vets have in common is that they’ve all been shaped by war… and by God. That’s why we named the film and this podcast By War & By God. Their faith has led them back to Vietnam and in the process they’ve found some sort of healing.

Kent C. Williamson: What brought about the change?

Steve Scott: I can tell you how I changed and when I changed, but I can’t tell you what causes that.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Steve Scott…

Steve Scott: I think that’s bigger than me and I don’t understand. I feel truly blessed for being called. And I’ve read all the biblical things that I can get my hands on, but mostly I remember reading somewhere that God calls everyone but not many answer. For some reason, I was receptive, I answered.

CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Just a reminder to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and please (did you hear that, I said “please”) please tell a friend about us. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. A reminder to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save some cash on your copy of the film By War & By God. You can also watch the film for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.

Find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com.

The film will be at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma on Saturday, April 22^nd where it will screen at the historic Roxy Theatre. By War & By God will also screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if check it out if you can.

The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.

Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford.

By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.

And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!

Next week on the By War & By God Podcast…

EPISODE 07 – GOING BACK TO VIETNAM

PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Phil Carney, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Bob Peragallo, Steve Scott, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson

LINKS:

Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!

April 12, 2017

Episode 06 — Dealing With Your Baggage

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SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans deal with their PTSD and speak of their desire to return to Vietnam.

TEASER — Pat Cameron: But the average 19-year-old, 18-year-old, kid that went over there didn’t come back the same… did not come back the same.

INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: For whatever reason, when I travel I prefer to handle my own baggage. Occasionally there’s an awkward moment in front of a hotel when the concierge calls the bellhop over to take my luggage and I have to politely wave them off while trying to grab all my bags, not leave any behind, and not knock anything over as I continue on my way. Often I’m overloaded with bags hanging from my shoulders and suitcases in tow, and if the family’s with me, pillows and stuffed animals jammed in my armpits. You know the guy I’m talking about. You’ve probably seen him yourself… well, that’s me. I long to be the guy with just a single bag and a wad of cash for tips, but most of the time, I’m not. I’ve got baggage, and lots of it. Of course, physical baggage, as messy as it can get, is often easier to carry than emotional baggage. When our veterans returned from Vietnam they often brought both. An over-stuffed duffle bag can be dumped onto the bed and sorted through or it can be tucked into a closet and forgotten about. But the emotional baggage that flew back from Vietnam with our veterans was a different story altogether.

But before we get into the show, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the place to go to purchase the documentary By War & By God, so if you need a copy please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save one-hundred-thirteen-thousand-eight-hundred-and-fifty Vietnamese Dong… or five U.S. bucks on the film. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why do they go back? For healing and reconciliation.

In today’s episode, Dealing With Your Baggage, we’ll learn a little bit about a thing called PTSD. We’ll learn that trying to take the war out of the man is not an easy task. And today we’ll hear about the first hints of desire these men had of returning to the land called Vietnam. Alright… here it is…

Chuck Ward: When I finally had to face the demons of my Vietnam experiences that weren’t that bad…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…

Chuck Ward: So just imagine the poor Marines and soldiers, 13 and 12 months of being on the ground and involved in activity and firefights and ambushes, you know, every two or three days. And just imagine how it impacted them, if it impacted me this way. The survivors guilt was a big motivator, a big influence, in my life. Because of the five of us on our high school bowling team one never went to Vietnam, four went to Vietnam, and I was the only one that came back alive. The other three were all killed in Vietnam. That bothered me a lot. You know, ‘Why me?’

Kent C. Williamson: What were the kind of injuries that you saw people coming back with?

Pat Cameron: Lost arms and legs…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…

Pat Cameron: Most body injuries in the chest, they died. But, you know, quite a few amputees. And quite a few people that went crazy. They went absolutely in the loo-loo bins. And those were the ones they put on the street first… the ones that looked like they were healthy physically, but they weren’t healthy mentally. I don’t think I was healthy mentally. I mean to this day I take depression medicine. I’ve been taking depression medicine ever since, you know, for years… For almost 20 years now, I’ve been on depression medicine, you know. I just think war is hell. It’s just not good. You can’t put people in a battle. Now there are some gung-ho guys that wanted to go back more than once, and people that went back three and four times. I don’t know if it was just a rush for them, or what. But the average 19-year-old, 18-year-old kid that went over there didn’t come back the same. Did not come back the same. But I saw a lot of fear involved in people that came over, especially when they first get there. The first time you land in a foreign country, and you ain’t even been to a foreign country in your life… you’re 19 years old, and now you go in a foreign country and you don’t even speak the language, and then you got people shooting at you… How do you prepare for that?

Kent C. Williamson: Now they talk a lot about PTSD. Was that even on the radar back then? Was there any discussion about coming back and processing what you’d been through?

Cal Dunham: No. No, there was nothing like that…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: …at least to my knowledge. That’s not to say it wasn’t there, but I was young and I thought, “I’ll just suck it up, and I’ll get through this.” So I just tried to do it on my own. I didn’t really recognize it for what it really was

Kent C. Williamson: And how did that go? How did the “sucking it up” part work for you?

Cal Dunham: I could suck it up for a while, and then after Fran and I got married, just a few short months later we could be sitting in the apartment and I’d just start to cry, and I’d just say “Fran, I’m going out for a drive” and I’d go someplace and then I just… I wasn’t a heavy drinker but I’d just go to a bar and have some beers, or I’d go someplace and just park because I didn’t want her just seeing me sitting there and seeing me being melancholy and crying. So, you always kept a good face. You just buried it and kept a good face.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Post combat effects had been seen in other wars, but the term PTSD or post-traumatic stress disorder came about in the 1970’s as a result of the Vietnam War. The term was officially recognized by the American Psychiatric Association in 1980 in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Bob Peragallo: PTSD is like good wine: the older it gets the better it gets.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: One of the signs of post-traumatic stress disorder is you don’t think you have it, and that should be at the top of the list.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: In 1983, at the request of Congress, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs conducted a study into the prevalence of PTSD and other post-war psychological problems that our Vietnam Veterans were experiencing. The National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study consisted of hundreds of questions that sounded like these:

Questioner: Question H48D: Did you fire a weapon in a combat situation?

Question G48. Did anyone in your family or household ever spank or hit you hard enough that you had marks or bruises, had to stay in bed…

Question C3: How many times (if ever) have you been divorced?

Question R477. Have you thought that you lied pretty often since you have been an adult?

Question R426. When you were growing up, did you ever have any contact with the police or legal authorities for something they thought you had done, not including trouble with parking tickets?

Question K31. Did you have any problems at that time that you felt you couldn’t discuss with any friend or relative?

Question R452. Have you ever had sex with as many as ten different people within a single year (including your wife)? Homosexual or Heterosexual?

Question U2: Other than for weddings or funerals, have you attended services at a church or other place of worship since you were 18 years old?

Kent C. Williamson: The study found that over half of the of the U.S. participants in the Vietnam War experienced PTSD or partial PTSD symptoms. That’s over 1.7 million of our veterans.

Kent C. Williamson: How were you treated back home?

BREAK: But first… Did you serve in Vietnam? Did you suffer from PTSD? Or perhaps you had a family member who served and you’d like to ask them what there experience was like. Please record it on your phone and email it to me, or if you prefer typing, go for it. You can send it to me at Kent at By War AND By God dot com that’s Kent… that’s K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might just put a few of your stories into a future episode.

Now back to the show…

Kent C. Williamson: How were you treated back home?

Pat Cameron: I’ll be honest with you, as a corpsman I got more respect in the Marine Corps than I did anybody.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron.

Pat Cameron: The Marine Corps thought of us as salvation, especially the ones who had been over there and gotten back. I mean, once they knew that I had been over there it was just like… I wasn’t like an idol… but I was treated with the utmost respect and got many Thank You’s from the service side. I never did get any accolades from the public, from people. Never. Not even my family. My own family, you know, they just… But then again, I didn’t sit down with them and talk about some of the stuff I went through, Kent, I just wanted to keep it inside. But I kept it inside of me for 30 years. That couldn’t have helped me, I don’t think.

Bob Peragallo: There was no gratitude, no “Thank you for your service”, none of that. There was nothing, absolutely nothing.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: In fact, most people burned their uniforms when they got discharged. I never was that radical. I still was very proud of what I did in my service, but I sure was confused about it. All of a sudden I was the bad guy when I came home. I was as bad as the, in some cases worse than the enemy that we were fighting. So, you had to stuff it, you had to put it in a bag and stick it in a locker somewhere and lock it up, and not let any of that come out.

Kent C. Williamson: How did you deal with your Vietnam experiences?

Bob Peragallo: I try to describe it like an electrical panel that’s wired for 200 Amps, and Vietnam was 1,000 Amps, and it blew the circuits out, and so the only way that you were going to get through the emotional connection to your Vietnam experiences… you couldn’t reset the breakers. You kind of left them unsaid. You couldn’t process certain things, you couldn’t become close, you isolated yourself, you wouldn’t talk about Vietnam. What we now know, after all of these years is that the worst thing you can do for post-traumatic stress disorder is not talk about it. I was married probably, I’d say 8 to 10 years before I really told her my Vietnam experience.

Pat Cameron: I had one guy that I lost when I was over there, that was going to be leaving the next day to go home. So he didn’t make it.

Kent C. Williamson: Again, Pat Cameron…

Pat Cameron: How do you process that at 19?

Kent C. Williamson: How did you process it?

Pat Cameron: Oh, I don’t know, maybe about a half a fifth of liquor and sitting around with your comrades. We didn’t sit around and talk about somebody dying. We might for a minute, you know say we really hated that Jim didn’t make it. But if you processed it too much… the longer you were there the less you processed it. When you first get there you worked in fear; when you’d been there a while you worked through it; then when you get close to coming home you worried about dying. And I will live with it until I die. That’s just going to be the way it is

Roger Helle: When I was Medevaced out of Vietnam the plane took off, and sometimes the Communists would sit at the end of the runway and take shots at the planes that were taking off, and so what the plane had to do was they had to just get as high up as they could, as fast as they could.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…

Roger Helle: …and the plane banged over Da Nang Bay, and you know Vietnam was an incredibly beautiful country, and I’m looking at the emerald green waters of Da Nang Bay and the sandy China Beach and the mountains right there around Da Nang Bay, and as beautiful as it was at that point if I never ever went back to Vietnam again, if I never saw Vietnam again, that would be too soon. And for the next few years, four to be exact, I was kind of in an emotional, psychological wilderness of not understanding PTSD, not understanding survivors guilt, trying to wear a mask that I was okay, you know. I was proud of serving my country and being a Marine, so I wore that mask for about 4 ½ years. But unfortunately, my life began to unravel and you know the very thing that I said that I would never be growing up in a dysfunctional family – I had become an alcoholic, a workaholic, and my marriage was on the rocks. And then Jesus Christ came into my wife and I’s lives and God took away all the pain and memories of Vietnam, the nightmares. And the funny thing was, several months later something began stirring in my heart about Vietnam and I said to my wife “You know I’d like to go back to Vietnam now as a Christian; not as a Marine, not as a warrior, but as a Christian.” Well, that was several months later – April 1975 – Vietnam fell, and so from ‘75 to ‘88 I would ask missionaries that were in Asia, parts of Asia, what was going on in Vietnam. And nothing was happening in Vietnam, it was closed off to the outside world.

Bob Peregallo: I had a lot of guilt.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peregallo.

Bob Peregallo: It was a false guilt, but it was guilt of what I did in Vietnam. Everybody told me how wrong it was, that I was wrong. And these horrible accusations, you know what they are, they said all those things. So, I went into church and I heard the message of forgiveness and I responded and it was the beginning of me getting my head back together and breaking free from the whole Vietnam experience, and becoming a normal human being again, which took some time. It wasn’t an easy transition. It took some time.

Kent C. Williamson: So when did you start thinking about going back to Vietnam?

BREAK: But first… Two quick items. We’re giving away the soundtrack to the film By War & By God, so if you like the music, go to By War And By God dot com, click on the Soundtrack item on the menu and download all 8 tracks of this great score. The music was composed by Will Musser and we want you to have it for free. So go download it. Next… I want to say “thank you” for listening. You are the reason we create this show and I want to ask you to please tell a friend about us. There’s probably at least one person in your circle of influence who would like to hear this podcast, so please tell them about it. And if you can, go to iTunes (or wherever you get your podcasts) and leave us a review. Your words will help others know that this show is worth listening to. Okay, so that was three things, not two things. All right, let’s get back to the show…

Kent C. Williamson: So, when did you start thinking about going back to Vietnam?

Bob Peragallo: I wanted to be a missionary, so the first church I ever pioneered, the first thing we were going to do was send out missionaries and we sent a missionary couple to Honduras. This is back in the early ‘80s, about 1980, and the Sandinista war was going on in Central America. But I remember, like, I felt so fulfilled that I was doing something beyond just being “the church guy”. We were working in this orphanage and at night, I would… all of a sudden I would look up and over the other side of the mountain I’d see tracers, and I could hear gunships. And it just blew my mind, like ‘Wow, we’re this close to the war’. You know, we all heard about it and we were cautioned about traveling down the Pan-American highway, and here I am in 1980, and I’m looking at tracers going through the air, and it brought me right back to Vietnam, and in that process that’s where I first figured ‘You know, it would really be nice if we could do this in Vietnam.’ When I was in Vietnam I tried to imagine what it would be like if people weren’t trying to kill you. I just would always tell myself, “Man, I’d like to come back to this place sometime. This has got to be a beautiful place.” It’s just that it was ugly by war.

Kent C. Williamson: When you first thought of going back to Vietnam, what went through your head? This is Pat Cameron…

Pat Cameron: I think the first thing that went through my head was the fact of “Why in the hell am I even thinking about going back there?” That was the first thing I said, “What am I looking for? Why do I want to go back?”

Kent C. Williamson: So tell me about the first inklings of desire that you had to return to Vietnam. This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: Every now and then I would see something on TV with World War II vets, or Korean vets. They’d be interviewing them and so on, and they would talk about that they were going back to some kind of a reunion at a particular place in Europe or wherever it might have been, and I just started thinking about, you know, ‘I wonder how that would be for me if I did anything like that.’

Bob Peragallo: It was just like a tremendous magnet that wanted to pull me back to Vietnam. I couldn’t shake it, I couldn’t resist it.

Kent C. Williamson: Again, Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: My wife and family members and people that I knew, they had mixed feelings about going back to Vietnam, but I was just compelled. There was just something in me that was driving me from deep inside to return to that place, knowing that there was an uncertain outcome – how we would be treated, how it would work. It was just an uncontrollable impulse to return to the scene of the crime.

Phil Carney: To me, Vietnam personally felt unfinished.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…

Phil Carney: I never knew how to really articulate it. I never said it to anybody out loud, but it just always felt like there was something unresolved and unfinished. I never felt like there was an apology owed. I never felt like… I never regretted going. I never really felt guilty about being a Vietnam veteran, but there was just something in my own soul that felt unfinished about my Vietnam experience. I just always felt in my heart if I ever could go back to Vietnam it would be meaningful and important, and I didn’t know what that was. It just felt unfinished to me

CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Don’t forget to subscribe so you won’t miss an episode and please tell a friend about us. You can learn more about By War & By God at our website… By War And By God dot com. A reminder to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe to save some money on your copy of the film By War & By God. Also if you have an Amazon Prime account you can watch the film for free.

You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email me your thoughts about the show or your own experiences. You can send them to Kent at By War And By God dot com.

Leslie Wood was the voice of the questions from the National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study in today’s episode. Special thanks to Greg Allen Morgoglione for his help and suggestions to make this show better. Thanks Greg! The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and don’t forget, for a limited time you can download the entire soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.

Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford.

By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.

And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!

EPISODE 06 – DEALING WITH YOUR BAGGAGE

PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Phil Carney, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Bob Peragallo, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson

LINKS:

Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders

Findings from the National Vietnam Veterans’ Readjustment Study

By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!

April 5, 2017

Episode 05 — You Can’t Go Home Again

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SUMMARY: Several Vietnam veterans return from the war only to learn that you can’t go home again.

TEASER — Bob Peragallo: You left the battlefield and you were home within a matter of 3 or 4 days and there was no counseling, there was no debriefing, there was absolutely nothing.

INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: There’s one thing that every war has in common. Eventually, they all come to an end… eventually. In April of 1975, after twenty years of fighting, and over a decade of American involvement, that day came for the war in Vietnam. It happened when Saigon, the capital of South Vietnam, fell. As it all was coming to a close, the grounds of the U.S. Embassy were packed with people hoping to escape the country. For 24 hours helicopter after helicopter briefly landed on rooftops, they were loaded with those fortunate enough to get visas, and lifted again into the sky where they flew to the air craft carriers waiting in the South China Sea. Tamarind trees were cut down in the Embassy’s parking lot to make room for a landing zone for more helicopters. There is some powerful footage of the evacuation online. We’ll include links to some in our show notes. At 4:58 in the morning of April 30th, Graham Martin, the U.S. Ambassador to South Vietnam climbed aboard a helicopter known as Lady Ace 09 and evacuated the embassy. By 7:53 that morning the last of the Marines lifted off the ground leaving behind many South Vietnamese who weren’t fortunate enough to catch a flight out. At 11:30am tanks of the Peoples Army of Vietnam crushed the gates of the Presidential Palace in Saigon. A flag for the National Liberation Front was raised above the building and the Vietnam War was over. Or was it?

Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. It’s a place where we can go deeper into the stories of the lives of these veterans than we’re able to in the film. Over this season were telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ll hear stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… but you’ll also hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.

But before we start, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is where you go to purchase the documentary By War & By God, so if you need a copy for yourself, your dad, a friend, a veteran you know, or your local library, please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save one-hundred-thirteen-thousand-eight-hundred-and-fifty Vietnamese Dong… or five U.S. bucks on the film. Oh, and 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. That’s a lot of Veterans. Why do they go back? For healing and reconciliation.

In today’s episode, You Can’t Go Home Again, we’ll learn that you can remove the man from the war, but that it’s much more difficult to remove the war from the man. The home you left behind to go fight the war is not the same when you return… and neither are you. Alright… here we go…

Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about coming home from the war…

Chuck Ward: Coming back so quickly from Vietnam, so many had no time to decompress, no time to share. On Saturday you could leave Vietnam, and on Monday or Tuesday you could be ushered out of the Army or the Marines, and no one seemed to really care.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…

Chuck Ward: It’s a difficult thing coming back from war, whether you did just a little bit or you were there for two or three tours. And when you come home it’s different, and you’re different. Many Vietnam vets, particularly the soldiers and Marines, didn’t have a good experience when they came back – usually to California… San Diego… San Francisco, usually. In the latter part of the war the military were telling Veterans they might want to not wear their uniform when they process out. It was just crazy.

Bob Peragallo: When I came back to the states I was on a Medevac flight and I was Medevaced to the Oakland Naval Hospital and I was an outpatient there.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: I was a walking casualty, is what I guess the term was. You left the battlefield and you were home within a matter of three or four days, and there was no counseling, there was no debriefing, there was absolutely nothing. All of a sudden, you’re back to being a civilian, everybody thinks the Vietnam War sucks and the transfer of that came across as you suck. When I got home, obviously my parents were very emotional. It was the first time I’d ever seen my father cry. They welcomed me, but they never really asked me any questions; they never spoke about anything; they never asked me what happened, what was it like. It was like ‘You’re home, and we’re real glad, but we don’t want to know anything.’

Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about leaving Vietnam after the war…

Cal Dunham: We called it ‘Going back to the world’, is what we called it when we were leaving…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: So you go through this out processing and then you got on a plane. It was just almost deadly silence on the plane, and then the captain came on and said ‘Okay, we’re taxiing. We’re going to take off now’, and it was just dead silence, and then as soon as we lifted off the ground and we knew we were at an elevation where nothing could happen everybody just broke into cheers and grabbed the stewardesses and hugged them and everybody was just ecstatic that we were now headed home. It was a great feeling, it was a real euphoria because ‘Okay I made it! Now I’m on my way home’.

Pat Cameron: Well first of all, I was glad to get on the plane to go back…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…

Pat Cameron: …and when I got off the plane there really wasn’t anybody there to greet us at all. And then I went straight from there to the Balboa Naval Hospital and that’s where I was going to spend the remainder of my duty time from serving over in Nam. Shortly after I checked in Balboa Naval Hospital I went home for a leave. I got about 2-1/2 or 3 weeks to take off after serving over there, and to be really honest with you I just… I didn’t talk about it much.

Kent C. Williamson: So what was coming home like? How, how were you received?

BREAK: But first… As a storyteller, I love telling stories; whether on film or in audio form like this podcast. But the telling of stories doesn’t work without an audience like you. So I want to say “thank you” for listening. You are the reason we create this show. As listeners of this show I want to ask you for two favors. First, will you please tell a friend about us? There’s probably at least one person in your circle of influence who would like to hear this podcast, so please tell them about it. I would appreciate it. Second, would you consider going to iTunes (or wherever you get your podcasts) to rate us and give us a review. Your review will help others know that this show is worth listening to. I can’t thank you enough for listening, but let me say it once more… thank you!

Kent C. Williamson: So what was coming home like? How, how were you received? This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: Coming home was absolutely awesome, you know. You finally had this sense, ‘I’m free’. I had a 30-day leave, so I went… When I got home – my dad was a principal in an elementary school – so I got a taxi cab that took me to my dad’s school where he was principal and I just walked in, and there he was. They didn’t know exactly when I would be home because I hadn’t called. They just knew that I should be home around a certain date. So, I saw my dad for the first time in a year and we hugged and then I took his vehicle and went up to another school where my mom was teaching. And those first days were just like a euphoria, you know, you were there and you had a sense of “I made it back”. It was joyous, it was a wonderful thing – well-received by my family and my closer friends that knew me. We just had a great time being able to be together again.

Kent C. Williamson: Did your friends understand what you had been through?

Cal Dunham: I don’t think so, not really. They were just glad I was home, that I was safe, but they really didn’t understand what I had just been through, nor was I sharing any of that. You really just didn’t talk about it much. I mean, especially in those first months and so on you would… maybe you would tell a light story of something that happened to you but, for me, I never really talked about it. They would say “Well, we’re glad you’re home”. You know, they were already in their lives and you had to kind of start over again. You had to kind of get settled in and figure out what you were going to do.

Kent C. Williamson: So, what kind of challenges did that present?

Cal Dunham: I still had some time left in the Army so I knew I had to go, I went over to… Well, I was on my way to Fort Hood, Texas. That was where my reassignment was. I was driving, when I was on my way to Texas, I got a call the day I left that my dad had just died suddenly of a heart attack… That just… in some way just pushed me over the edge in some way for quite some time… I was really struggling at that point because I had just seen so much of it, and to have my own dad just die… That was pretty tough.

Kent C. Williamson: So how did you process that?

Cal Dunham: In my mind I made up all kinds of stories for a while that he wasn’t really dead. You know, your mind can do strange things to you. But I just had to process it.

Chuck Ward: I had one experience that told me what things were like back in the States…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…

Chuck Ward: When a carrier comes back to its place – in our case it was Alameda, which is San Francisco, California – all the enlisted men and the officers go up on the flight deck and they line the flight deck… They go all the way around the flight deck, and you’re in your dress uniform… whites in summer, blues if it’s winter. And as we were sailing under the Oakland Bay Bridge I looked up, and you could see people up on top of the bridge… lots of people… and you could tell they had signs – you couldn’t read them yet, but you knew they had signs. But as you got closer you begin to hear that these were not people that were welcoming you home. It was antiwar protesters, and then as you even got closer you could see some of the signs… huge signs, small signs, some of them said really terrible things… You know, you’ve heard, things like ‘baby killer’, that sort of thing. But the thing that happened… it was terrible… as our carrier went under the Oakland Bay Bridge soon things began to hit us and it turned out to be feces and urine, and they were dumping buckets of it on us. I mean, you talk about angry… Those people on the bridge that day were very fortunate that the sailors on that flight deck couldn’t get to them because it would have been awful. You know, how in the world do you treat people that way? It was disgusting.

Kent C. Williamson: So what was it like when you got back? This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: I still had a year and a half to do in the Marine Corps – over a year and a half – so I was stationed at the Concord Naval Weapons Station, which was a West Coast ammunition depot for the Vietnam War. I was assigned as a security guard. We had a lot going on because we had all the Berkeley demonstrators that were protesting the war ammunition depot. So, I went from one war against the Viet Cong into a war against war protesters. And these were not nice, loving, hippie people. These people were pretty vicious, and it was confrontations on every weekend when they would come down to protest.

Archival Footage — News Report: On October 15, 1965 at the Berkeley campus of the University of California the Vietnam Day Committee held a mass rally to protest the United States war against Viet Nam. In the evening 14,000 students and people from the community marched from the campus toward the Oakland Army base.

Cal Dunham: This is kind of a funny… well, not so funny story.

Kent Williamson: Again, Cal Dunham.

Cal Dunham: There was a guy sitting in front of me in a line of traffic, and he had long hair, and looked like what back then we called a hippie, and I made some kind of rude comment about him probably being one of those protesters that hates guys like me and so on. And Fran just looked at me and said “Cal, that guy up in that car ahead of us is my stepbrother”. And I said “You’re kidding me.” And she said “No, that’s my stepbrother”. And I said, ”Don’t you ever introduce me to him.” I was really rude. He hadn’t done anything to me but you really stereotype people, so you just kind of stayed away from people that you thought might be real negative towards you.

Kent C. Williamson: What did you do after dealing with the protests?

BREAK: But first… Did you serve in Vietnam? If so, I’d like to hear what it was like for you to return home. Or perhaps you had a family member who served and you’d like to ask them what it was like to come home. Please record it on your phone and email it to me, or if you prefer typing, go for it. Either way, send it to me at Kent at By War And By God dot com that’s Kent… K E N T at By War And By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might just put some of your stories into a future episode.

Okay, I want to interrupt things for a moment to point out the set dressing… do you hear that?… This is part of the soundtrack of the film By War & By God. It was composed by Will Musser and guess what? We’re giving it away. Will Musser has created music for several of my films, but he’s probably most known for his work on the God’s Not Dead films. Another one of his soundtracks hits theaters this weekend in a film called The Case For Christ. Anyway, I love his music, he’s a very talented artist and I want you to experience the soundtrack for free. So make a mental note to go to By War And By God dot com to download it.

Now back to the show…

Kent C. Williamson: What did you do after dealing with the protests?

Bob Peragallo: I became the senior NCO of a burial detail, and we were doing three or four military funerals every day.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: This would’ve been 1968, which was the highest casualty rate of the Viet Nam war – the Tet offensive. I did that for six months, and you just try to imagine what that is like, folding the flag of this mother’s son and handing it to her. Let me tell you, it was just a gut wrenching experience, and the only way we could actually get through it after a while was we started drinking pretty heavy. All of us were emotional basket cases, cause we were some of the first returning vets from the Vietnamese War. My experience coming home while still in the military just soured me, and there was no way I was going to stay in the military. So, I took my discharge and just had a really messed up life for the next two or three years – just drinking, carousing, fighting, whatever… just an angry, angry person.

Kent C. Williamson: What did you do after you got out of the service?

Pat Cameron: My father and I… I used to play with race cars a lot – drag racing. And he gave me the funds to start building another race car in California…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…

Pat Cameron: …and I dominated my time and most of my mental state to going back to racing cars. I don’t know if I just wanted to go fast, and… I didn’t fear death, I will tell you that. Death was something that I had seen so much of that I just decided if I didn’t get a calling then I wasn’t going to get no calling. So, I ended up driving race cars up to 250 miles an hour; everything from funny cars to IMSA racing where I ran all over the world. I traveled a lot, and I did that for two years and it was a joy after I got out of the service.

Chuck Ward: In my life, I really put my wife through a lot. There’s no question it led to the divorce in my first marriage.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward.

Chuck Ward: If I knew then what I know now perhaps that marriage could have been saved, but there wasn’t any chance really. So then, you take those issues from one relationship to another. You think you’ve dealt with it. I just kind of… just tried to forget my bad memories, and bad things that happened.

Kent C. Williamson: Chuck eventually remarried…

Chuck Ward: I wanted to have that special bond that men in the military have – particularly in war – in my marriage, which was unfair. I did things that were irrational because it was about Viet Nam and not about living in Murray, Kentucky. And I didn’t treat my wife very well, and we didn’t have the intimacy on the emotional level that we should have had. I just had this box… this fence around me. And she finally had enough, and she wanted out of the marriage, and that made me deal upfront with Vietnam. So, my wife and I separated. I even had to do a very humbling thing. I had a full-time job at a University and I had to get a part-time job so I could pay for the counseling to try to help myself and save my marriage. That was really humbling because I delivered newspapers on weekends, and sometimes I delivered those newspapers to people that I worked with at the University. It was embarrassing, and it was humbling. But I had to do it, or there wasn’t going to be a marriage anymore and… God’s grace, and compassion, and mercy, and Joette’s faith… we weathered the storm, and we got back together and we’ve never looked back.

CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: I’ll end today’s episode with a quote from the great American novelist John Steinbeck. In his book Travels With Charley he goes back to visit the town of his youth and upon reflection he says, “Tom Wolfe was right. You can’t go home again because home has ceased to exist except in the mothballs of memory.”

Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Don’t forget to subscribe so you won’t miss an episode. Learn more about By War & By God at our website… By War And By God dot com. The name for this week’s episode “You Can’t Go Home Again” was taken from Thomas Wolfe’s book by the same name and was suggested by Molly McGarity Fulton. Thank you Molly! I asked my Facebook friends for suggestions naming this episode and received a bunch of really great ideas. Thanks to all of you who voted and suggested titles.

A reminder to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save over one-hundred-and-thirteen-thousand Vietnamese Dong on your copy of the film By War & By God. Also if you have an Amazon Prime account you can watch the film for free. That’s right… for free.

Find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email me your thoughts about the show or your own experiences. Send them to Kent at By War And By God dot com.

By the way, the film has a couple of upcoming festival appearances. It will be at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma on Saturday, April 22nd where it will screen at the historic Roxy Theatre. By War & By God will also screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if you’re in either of those parts of the country, please go see it!

The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me, Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter, but this week I need to say thanks to three of the Veterans from the show, Pat Cameron, Cal Dunham, and Bob Peragallo who all acted as their own audio engineers as they recorded their end of the phone interviews for this week’s show. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the Chuck Ward interview you heard in this episode back when we shot it for the film.

Special thanks to Greg Allen Morgoglione for his continued help with suggestions for sound effects, show notes, etc. Thanks Greg! The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and don’t forget, for a limited time you can download the entire soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.

The War Protest News Clip in today’s show originally was heard in the documentary film Hot Damn!

Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford.

By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.

And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!

EPISODE 05 – YOU CAN’T GO HOME AGAIN

PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Cal Dunham, Bob Peragallo, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson

LINKS:

Fall of Saigon 1975 – Sandy Gall Reporting from Saigon

Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!

March 22, 2017

Episode 03 — My Worst Day In Vietnam – Part 1

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SUMMARY: How would you describe your worst day in the war? Three Vietnam War Veterans describe their worst days during Vietnam. (Part 1 of 2)

TEASER — Bob Peragallo: General Giap had promised Ho Chi Minh that if the Marines ever crossed the Thu Bon River he would wipe them out, and there was a Vietnamese term for that, and the English translation is that they would be “walking dead men”.

INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: In previous episodes we’ve heard how these veterans first learned about a place called Vietnam. We heard about their first days in-country and some of their first patrols. We’ve also learned about their best days during the war, but today (and next week) we’re going to dive into some of the bad memories from their experiences in Vietnam.

Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. As you may know, this podcast is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. What awards you might ask… well, we were nominated for an Emmy in our region, we won Best of Show, Best Editing, Best Direction, and the Human Spirit Awards at the Docs Without Borders Film Festival. We’ve also won Awards of Merit at both The Indiefest and the Impact Docs Awards and most recently we’ve been nominated for Most Inspirational Documentary and Best Director at ICFF, the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if you have yet to see the film, I encourage you to check it out. This podcast is a place where we can go deeper into the stories of these veterans. Over this season you will hear the amazing accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ll hear stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy (like in today’s episode)… but down the road you’ll also hear stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam to serve some of the poorest of the poor of that beautiful land.

But war is not pretty. It is not fun. To ignore the stories of these veterans experiences would be to gloss over the tragedy that war really is. In this episode My Worst Day in Vietnam we’ll hear about some of those bad, dark days… so stay with us…

But before we start, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is a simple web store with a few films to buy, including the documentary By War & By God, so if you haven’t seen the film, or if you need to pick up a copy for a friend, a history buff, a Vietnam veteran that you know, please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five glorious bucks on the film. Oh, and don’t forget… 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why? For healing and reconciliation. Alright, let’s get on with today’s episode…

WARNING: Actually, before we jump in I want to warn listeners that there are some rather disturbing events described in this week’s show, so now would be a good time to skip to another episode if you’re sensitive to this type of thing. Okay, here we go…

Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your worst day in Vietnam…

Bob Peragallo: Well my worst day was May 12, 1966.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…

Bob Peragallo: Our company was pretty much overrun. We were in a area near the Thu Bồn River which was south of Da Nang. The Thu Bồn River ran from the South China Sea, a little village called Hoi An up all the way into almost up to the Laotian border. And ninth marines again was the first marine unit that was in Vietnam legally, we were the first marines that were sent there. And we were the most advanced unit in that particular area of I Corps.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: The I Corps was one of four corps of the Army of the Republic of Vietnam. These were the South Vietnamese soldiers the Americans fought alongside against the North Vietnamese Army or NVA and their allies, the Viet Cong.

Bob Peragallo: …the most advanced unit in that particular area of I Corps. And General Giap had promised Ho Chi Minh that if the marines ever crossed the Thu Bồn River he would wipe them out. And there was a Vietnamese term for that. That was, an English translation is that they would be “walking dead men”. And on May 12th, we liberated the village of Dai Loc and then headed to the Thu Bồn River. And as we approached the Thu Bồn River. We set up that night, we had been radically attacked during the day and we suffered some casualties. Every morning marine company sends out a security patrol to run a security check around our parameter. And that patrol inadvertently sprung an ambush that the R-20 Doc Lap VC Battalion had set for our entire company. That was a squad that I was in, but a week before they had transferred me from that squad to another squad – second squad. And so all of my buddies were in that squad and we lost contact with them. And they took the brunt of the ambush and were pretty much annihilated; only two survived from that original squad. And there were about five hundred VC that had attacked this fourteen man patrol.

Kent C. Williamson: VC stands for Viet Cong. Also called the National Liberation Front, the Viet Cong were strong allies of the NVA, the North Vietnamese Army, and a strong force in South Vietnam.

Bob Peragallo: … were about five hundred VC that had attacked this fourteen man patrol. And I was the reaction force to get to that squad and relieve them, and so we ultimately were pinned down – we never did get to them. And it was just a horrible battle that lasted three days. It became a battle that became an operation it was called The Lost Patrol. The 9th marines at this day have a moniker that their battalion is called The Walking Dead, which was that term that Ho Chi Minh used to define them – what would happen to them if we crossed the Thu Bồn River. We killed about a hundred and seventy five VC that day according to the news reports. However accurate it is I don’t know, but I know that we did a lot of damage, but we also suffered a lot of damage. We had fourteen marines killed just from our platoon Alpha Company. And Bravo company responded to our aid, and they suffered numerous casualties. Some estimates were there were between thirty and thirty five marines killed that day. And doesn’t really account for the wounded. And those were bad days ’cause we, we had a squad that was overrun. And they were not nice in that process, what they did to those who were wounded. So it was a bad day, a bad day all around and, yeah, something that I’ll never forget.

Kent C. Williamson: If you’d like to see a picture of the men from the “Lost Patrol” and hear Bob Peragallo talk more about them and their fate, check out the bonus material for the film By War & By God. You can find it on the DVD or on Vimeo On Demand.

Kent C. Williamson: What about your worst day?

Roger Helle: Probably my first worst day in Vietnam was after we had come ashore and were providing security at the airfield at Phu Bai…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…

Roger Helle: …they got us up about 2 in the morning, one morning and said we were going on an operation. And we were heli-lifted into an open area, and we dug in until dawn came. And at dawn they said. we’re looking to make contact with an unknown size enemy force that had overrun a South Vietnamese army unit that night. And that afternoon, my company of 219 marines walked into a 650 man Viet Cong ambush, and in one short 45 minute fire fight that company of marines was reduced to 78 men that had not been killed or wounded. My best friend, that I had gone through training with was killed standing next to me. My platoon sergeant, a Korean War veteran who had kind of taken us under his wing was killed standing on the other side of me. And that was probably my first worst day in Vietnam. The reality check is that, as an 18 year old marine I was not bulletproof.

Kent C. Williamson: So what about your second worst day? If that’s your first worst day, what’s the next? Where does it go bad from there? But first…

BREAK: Were you in Vietnam? What was your worst day in like? We would love to hear your story? Or perhaps you have a family member who served and you’d like to ask them that question. Record it for us, we’d love to hear it in your (or their) own words, or if you prefer typing… we’d love to read it, too. Either way, send it to me at Kent at By War AND By God dot com that’s Kent… K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might even put some of them together into a future episode.

Now back to the show…

Kent C. Williamson: So what about your second worst day? If that’s your first worst day, what’s the next? Where does it go bad from there?

Kent C. Williamson: Roger Helle continues…

Roger Helle: Probably my last worst day was – the day, on my third tour, July 1970 when I was, had a grenade go off at my feet and was critically wounded and medevaced to the 95th Evac hospital at Saigon with multiple wounds, internal wounds, burns, bullet wounds and probably didn’t think that I was going to survive that day.

Kent C. Williamson: Let’s back up a little bit right before there. What led up to that? Tell us what you were doing. What’s happening before that hand grenade shows up?

Roger Helle: I was a platoon leader, I had several squads of Marines and several platoons of what we call Vietnamese Militia…

DROP IN — The South Vietnamese had two national guard type local military units; Regional Forces (or RF’s) and Popular Forces (PF’s). The Popular Forces were organized to defend villages and hamlets from the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army, typically with outdated American weapons from as far back as World War II. Meanwhile, the Regional Forces performed a similar role on a District level, but with bit more weapon support. The RF’s & PF’s became known as the “Ruff-Puffs” based on their combined initials and many Ruff-Puff units became known for their courage and bravery.

Roger Helle: …what we call Vietnamese Militia, we were living in the villages, taking Guerrilla warfare into the enemies backyard. And we were on a search and destroy mission to destroy a VC basecamp that we had hit several days before. And we were going back out to blow up the bunkers and destroy the equipment that we couldn’t carry away the first time. And I was walking point when a grenade was thrown and hit me in the leg, bounced off my leg and landed at my feet. And before I could do anything, that grenade went off and just lifted me off the ground, ripped me apart from head to toe. I stood up in shock, was shot twice, knocked to the ground again, and run through the stomach by a North Vietnamese soldier with his bayonet while I was laying on the ground. And that moment, I knew I was going to die in that field.

Kent C. Williamson: What happened next?

Roger Helle: A marine helicopter, a supply helicopter heard the distress call. There were no medevac choppers available, so they diverted from where they were going, landed in a dry rice paddy – and my guys carried me on a stretcher into the back of this supply helicopter. And I was rushed to the hospital in Da Nang. Took me into the triage and – sights, smells that you’ll never forget; charred skin, blood, I was not the only casualty there that day. And I remember the doctor putting the mask on my face, telling me he was going to take me down to surgery. Six days later, in and out of consciousness, I woke up in intensive care. And so, as I was laying in my hospital bed and I saw my twin brother walk past my bed – and went up to a doctor and asked if he could see his brother. And I heard the doctor tell my twin brother that I was going to die, that they had done everything that they could. And my brother asked if he could see me, ‘cause he did not recognize me. So I could see out of the corner of my eye as I lay in that bed, the doctor and a nurse lead him to my bed and just stop. And my brother just stood there with kind of a stunned look on his face, because I was ripped apart from head to toe. I had all of these open wounds, my face was distorted. They said my head was probably the size of a basketball, all black and blue. And he stood there for a moment with a blank look – and literally I could see when the look of recognition came across my brother’s face. He recognized that it was actually me laying there. And he stood there for a moment, and he began to weep. And he started to take a step toward my bed and his legs just buckled underneath him, and he fell against the end of my bed and was just sobbing. And as I was laying on that bed I was three months from my 23 birthday. This was my third tour and my third time getting wounded and, laying in that hospital bed – I didn’t want to die. I was, that fear gripped my heart greater than anything I had experienced in three tours of combat. And I’m not sure why, but I just remember I closed my eyes and I said, “God, if there really is a God, if you let me live, I’ll do anything you want,” and I went to sleep.

Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about… tell me about your worst day in Vietnam.

Cal Dunham: My worst day in Vietnam was in January of ’69 while we were moving through a bunker complex.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…

Cal Dunham: All hell broke loose, and I found myself withering in pain. The tree that I had dodged behind, was hit with a rocket propelled grenade, an RPG.

DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Rocket Propelled Grenades were developed by the Soviet Union toward the end of World War II and were distributed widely to Soviet allies like North Vietnam. They were designed to be easily shoulder fired as the weapon and the grenade weighed just under 10 pounds. With an accurate range up to 500 feet these grenades traveled about 275 feet per second. Upon impact they could penetrate armor over 7 inches thick.

Cal Dunham: …was hit with a rocket propelled grenade, an RPG. That’s when I first realized, because it was relatively new in my arrival to Vietnam within about the first month or so – that this was real, that it was no game. And from that point on, being medevaced – everything that you would go through in that kind of environment was pretty traumatic.

Kent C. Williamson: Tell us about it. What was the whole experience like?

Cal Dunham: Well, we were engaged in fighting, and then this explosion, right where I was, it knocked me unconscious. And when I woke up all I remember was just hollering for the medics. A medic came, dragged me back into a little bit of a more secure safe area, and then they begin to– When it was all said and done, and the firing had ceased, then they brought in the medevac helicopters. And all of us that had been wounded were put on helicopters and sent back, flown back to a secure site where then they began to clean up the wounds, and stitch up the tears and so on. Didn’t really begin to feel a sense of shock until I finally was out of the environment, and then I realized what I had just been through.

Kent C. Williamson: What were your injuries?

Cal Dunham: I had shrapnel through my left thigh, into my right shoulder. My hands and face looked like I’d ran through a briar patch. I was all scratched up, and pock marks and little bleed areas that all they could do was clean them up. And then a bit of a concussion because of where the grenade went off.

Kent C. Williamson: Tell us about some of your friends…

Cal Dunham: Friends. You know we’d all say well, we’re not going to make friends because we don’t want to be hurt by perhaps the loss of friends. But you do, you develop friendships. And there were people in my own squad, that we just lived together. Along the way, we would lose friends, but there was a camaraderie between all of us – that we really did watch out and care for each other. Now they say “I’ve got your back.” Well there was a real sense of that – that you were looking out for yourself, but you were also looking out for those people that were in your squad, that you had developed a relationship with. And you just knew you were all in this together, and we all wanted to get out together.

CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thanks for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Next week… Part 2 of My Worst Day In Vietnam. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you won’t miss an episode. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save 5 glorious bucks on your copy of the film By War & By God. You can watch the film for free if you have an Amazon Prime account. Yes you heard that right… for free… Free.

You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re on Facebook go ahead and search for By War & By God and like us. Email me your thoughts about the show at Kent at By War And By God dot com.

By the way, the film has a couple of upcoming festival appearances. It will be at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma on Saturday, April 22^nd where it will screen at the historic Roxy Theatre. I’ve been to that theatre before and it’s a pretty cool venue. By War & By God will also screen in early May at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if you’re in either of those parts of the country, go see it!

Special thanks to the 720th Military Police Battalion for their information about the Ruff-Puff’s. Learn more about them at 720 MP Reunion dot org.

The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer for today’s show is Steve Carpenter. The By War & By God theme music was composed by Will Musser and by the way, for a limited time you can download for free the entire soundtrack at our website. Will Musser is a fantastic composer who’s known for his work on films like Gods Not Dead 1 & 2, The Case For Christ which hits theaters soon as well as another film of mine called Rebellion of Thought. Anyway, get his music free on our website.

Special thanks to the Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford. Thanks also to my brother Brad who helped record the interviews you heard in this episode back when we shot them for the film. Special thanks also to Liz Orazi for the great show notes she made for last week’s episode and her input on sound effects and to Greg Allen Morgoglione as well for his listening ears and soundscape input for today’s show.

By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.

And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!

EPISODE 03 – My Worst Day In Vietnam – Part 1

PLAYERS: Bob Peragallo, Roger Helle, Cal Dunham, and your host Kent C. Williamson

LINKS:

Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!

March 15, 2017

Episode 02 — My Best Day In Vietnam

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SUMMARY: How would you describe your best day of the war? Vietnam veterans reflect on their best days in Vietnam.

TEASER — Walt Griffin: The best time was just being with the guys. And, ya know, I think I almost miss those times, because there’s nothing like being with somebody that you don’t know whether you’re going to be with the next day, or the next week or whatever.

INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: Asking Vietnam Veterans what their best day in Vietnam was like is almost like asking someone about their favorite day in Hell. Perhaps the horrific memories are so overwhelming that it’s difficult to recall the bright spots. With losing friends and being immersed in a culture of war, you can imagine that any fun and laughter gets washed away by the gravity of it all. But as you’ll hear in today’s episode, there were some good memories to go along with the bad. In fact, most everyone we talked to for this episode was able to recall some good memory in the midst of it all.

Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This podcast is a companion series to the award winning documentary film By War & By God. This show is a place where we can go deeper into the stories of these brave souls than the film allows. Over this season, we will hear the amazing accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ll hear stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine gunners and crewman back to Vietnam to serve some of the poorest of the poor of that beautiful land.

In this episode, My Best Day in Vietnam, they’ll tell us exactly that. In the midst of war & bloodshed there were some bright spots, some good memories. But before we hear about these best days, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is a simple web store with a few films to buy, including the documentary By War & By God. So if you haven’t yet seen the film, or if you need to pick up a copy for a friend, an uncle, a Vietnam veteran that you know, please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five glorious bucks on the film. Oh, and remember… 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the nonprofit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400, that’s 1400, Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why? For healing and reconciliation. Alright, let’s get on with today’s episode…

Kent C. Williamson: What was your best day in Vietnam?

Bob Peragallo: Wow. I don’t think I had, I, I, I couldn’t give you a best day. That’s a difficult question to answer.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo.

Bob Peragallo: I guess… my mother sent me a rum cake once. And we were sitting up on, on a hill it was called Hill Twenty Two. And it was miserable, it was hot, we had suffered a lot of WIA and KIA…

DROP IN —Kent C. Williamson: WIA and KIA stand for Wounded In Action and Killed in Action. KIA also implies that the person was killed on the battlefield whereas DOW, or Died of Wounds, refers to someone who survived long enough to reach a medical facility but then succumbed to their injuries. Members of the United States Military who are WIA, KIA, and DOW would typically be awarded the Purple Heart for their sacrifice. In 2009, National Geographic magazine estimated that during the Vietnam war, nearly 352,000 Americans received the Purple Heart.

Bob Peragallo: We had suffered a lot of WIA and KIA, and it was just a miserable situation. It was after a major operation. And they finally got mail to us, and I opened up my package and it was a rum cake from my mother. And it was in a big can, and I remember opening up that can, and the rum just poured out. It was more than I could handle, cause I, I was pretty young and not used to really being a serious drinker. So at that time I was a machine gunner and my gun team and I, we devoured that rum cake and we were the happiest three guys on that hill. So if you say about… I was about as I could get was that day.

Cal Dunham: My best day in Vietnam was probably my last day in Vietnam, when I knew I was going, what we referred to as, “back to the world.”

Kent C. Williamson: Cal Dunham tells about his experience.

Cal Dunham: Because I was in an Infantry unit out in the jungles, I didn’t have what I would call “good days.”

Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your best day in Vietnam.

Steve Scott: China Beach R & R

DROP IN —Kent C. Williamson: China Beach was the in country R&R spot for the marines. R&R is military speak for rest and recuperation. Some called it rest and relaxation, rest and recreation, or even just “rock and roll”. Soldiers who served in hostile fire or imminent danger areas could be eligible for R&R leave which typically lasted 3 to 7 days and gave soldiers a break from combat. In earlier wars, some would use the slang term B&B which stood for Booze & Broads. By the time of the Vietnam War, another slang term had crept into the vernacular… I & I for intercourse & intoxication.

This is Corporal Steve Scott…

Steve Scott: My Best day in Vietnam…

Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about the R&R if that was the best.

Steve Scott: No, it wasn’t the best. I can’t particularly pick out a moment that I would say was a highlight, was a wonderful thing. As you know, your tour over there is a lot of boredom, a lot of craziness. And then, you know, periods of intense combat and terror. I think I always felt lucky being a small guy and never being an athlete or anything, of being a small guy keeping up with the big dogs. So I always felt that that kind of gave me a persona, if you will. So I can’t pick out a moment. I think, if anything, I spent a short time with a CAP unit, Combined Action Platoon… twelve marines, living in the village… and I got contact with some of the Vietnamese people. With the regular rifle company you just sweep and clear, search and destroy. But with the CAP unit, I got a feeling for the people. So I can say that was one of the things that I’ve carried on over the years, some of my motivation for what I do now.

DROP IN —Kent C. Williamson: We’ll learn more about what Steve Scott and these other Veterans are doing now in a future episode.

Kent C. Williamson: What’s your best memory of your time in Vietnam as a soldier?

Walt Griffin: The best memory was making all these friendships and camaraderie.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Walt Griffin…

Walt Griffin: Back in the rear we goofed around and had a good time. And then when we got down to business, we got serious and went out on our patrols or perimeter watch or whatever we did. The best time was just being with the guys. And, ya know, I think I almost miss those times, because there’s nothing like being with somebody that you don’t know whether you’re going to be with the next day, or the next week or whatever. And you do get close relationships, but you don’t get as close as they did early in the war. Because I went over as a replacement, so I was the new guy. And that was hard… people sort of shunned you at first because new guys were supposedly bad luck out in the field. So, but after, you get into the groove and you’re with good guys that came over within a month of you, you have to be friends with them. And then that was really good, so it was really good.

Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your best day in country when you were serving in Vietnam…

Phil Carney: Oh, my best day in country, and it was just 1 day, because it turned out not to be as good as I thought it was going to be.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…

Phil Carney: I was reassigned. I think I had about 4 months left in my tour, so it was really late in my tour. Only had about 4 months left, so I was a short timer. And I was reassigned. Me and my best friend were reassigned to a different unit. And we were reassigned to first MPs, First MP Battalion, and we were reassigned to an MP unit.

DROP IN —Kent C. Williamson: MP stands for Military Police. The Marine Corps Military Police help keep order and law. They maintain area security posts, perform intelligence operations, act as resettlement and interment officers, as well as support for mobility operations.

Phil Carney: And we were reassigned to an MP unit. And so we thought “Man, what a gravy job, this is gonna to be so good. We get to be in an MP unit now.” And we got to drive around in Jeeps, in Da Nang, and police the area. And we had all this power, it was a real power trip, but it turned out to be horrible. Because it was really a dangerous job, and we didn’t know it. But that was my best day, I can remember just thinking “Man, we finally got a break you know? They’ve assigned us to this really great MP unit, this is going to be so easy and so sweet.” And it wasn’t, but that was a good day man, I remember we were celebrating and just feeling like “Man, we’ve been handed such a nice easy assignment.” It was my best day.

BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: What was your best day in Vietnam like? We would love to hear your story? Or maybe you have a family member who served and you’d like to ask them that question. Record it for us, we’d love to hear it, or if you prefer typing… we’d love to read it, too. Either way, send it to me at Kent at By War AND By God dot com that’s Kent… KENT at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might even put some of them into a future episode.

Now back to the show…

Pat Cameron: My best day in ‘Nam, during the war…

Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…

Pat Cameron: …would be probably in the evening when I could have a few drinks. I mean I, you could still… you could drink a little bit of the frustration or the, what was going on, through cocktails. And they had a nice bar area for the guys that were there in the night. So I think it, plus I got a chance to talk to a lot of people. Got a chance to talk to some of the other corpsmen, talk to some of the other Marines. So I think the evening time was the best and usually I, it was when we were getting ready to leave. When we had finished up, we didn’t have anything else pending. I think we felt good about what we did. And we were heading back to Japan, which was pretty much vacation from what we just left. That was probably the best time while I was there.

Roger Helle: My best day in Vietnam probably had to be the day that, in my second tour, I did two tours back to back.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…

Roger Helle: We had been overrun the night before on a little fire base on the DMZ, and when dawn came after the enemy withdrew and we were gathering our wounded and dead… I heard somebody call my name. And told me to get on a helicopter, and 48 hours later I was back in my living room back home in America. And that probably had to be the best day because I didn’t know that that day would ever come.

Chuck Ward: My best day in Vietnam, I think, like a lot of Veterans, they might say it was the day you left.

Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…

Chuck Ward: For me, I was on an aircraft carrier most of the time, so I actually left Vietnam 3 times. The first time I left Vietnam on an aircraft carrier going back to the States. The second time I left Vietnam, I was on a carrier, and I went back to the States. But the 3rd time, I was on the carrier and then I was sent to the airbase there at Da Nang. So when I left Vietnam the 3rd time, two things happened. Aircraft carriers have an escalator in them, where the air crews and the pilots go up to the flight deck to man their aircraft. No one’s allowed to go on that escalator unless you’re an officer or an aircrew of some kind. And you know, there’s a tradition in the navy where you hear the bells being rung on a ship. Well there’s a lot of reasons for doing that. Well one of them is when an admiral’s on board the ship, or the captain is aboard the ship, and he leaves it, they ring the bell. And it’s a big deal. Well that day when I left, it was very emotional for me. I’d been with the same unit for 3 tours. I felt in a way that I was abandoning them. I was leaving, how were they gonna win the war without me? All the new guys were so young, so inexperienced. And so, it was a very emotional day in the ready room. A lot of hugs, and I remember I cried a lot. I just couldn’t believe it, I was so surprised about that. But, we said goodbye and I went to leave, and one of the officers said, “Walk with me.” And they took me to the escalator. And they had me ride the escalator to the flight deck. And when I got off the flight deck and walked out to the aircraft, the bolsters mate blew his whistle. There was one bell, and the loudspeaker, I guess, the bolsens mate up there on the bridge said, “Petty Officer Ward departing.” I still get very emotional about that. So, I was really a mess in the aircraft. Then we launched and went to Da Nang. And then, several months later, I left Da Nang and it was a great feeling to leave Vietnam. And I said, like most Vets I would imagine, “I will never come back to this place.” When that plane took off and the wheels were off that runway, I said, “I’ll never come back to this place.” I learned never say never to the Lord.

CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thanks for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Next week it gets a little tougher when we’ll hear about their worst days in Vietnam. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you won’t miss an episode. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save those 5 glorious bucks on your copy of the film. If you have an Amazon Prime account you can watch the film right now for FREE. Yes, you heard that right… for free… of course if you’re driving, I recommend that you wait until you get home.

You can find me on Facebook. Look for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re facebooking go ahead and search for By War & By God and like us. If you like email, please send your comments to Kent@ByWarAndByGod.com.

Special thanks to USMilitary dot com for their insight into the role of the Marine Corps Military Police Officer.

The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me, Kent C. Williamson, with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer for today’s show is Steve Carpenter. The By War & By God theme music was composed by Will Musser.

Special thanks to the Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford. Thanks also to my brother Brad who helped make By War & By God and who helped record the interviews you heard in this episode.

Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P A L A D I N Pictures dot com.

By War & by God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.

And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!

EPISODE 02: My Best Day In Vietnam

PLAYERS: Bob Peragallo, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Steve Scott, Walt Griffin, Phil Carney, Pat Cameron, Chuck Ward, and your host Kent C. Williamson

LINKS:

Big Heaven Cafe: Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”

The Walking Dead: See a bonus clip from the DVD where Bob Peragallo talks about the “Lost Patrol”