Kent C. Williamson
Episode 12 — Memorial Day Special: The Story of Floyd W. Olsen
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SUMMARY: One Vietnam Veteran still unaccounted for is remembered by his sister and niece in this Memorial Day Special.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: Just a few days ago, on May 18th of 2017 a funeral took place in Arlington National Cemetery. This funeral, with full military honors, including a flyover, a 21 gun-salute, and the playing of taps, was for Vietnam War veteran Colonel William Edward Campbell. Colonel Campbell was a member of the United States Air Force and was a “Nite Owl”; a group of pilots who flew bombing missions during the night from Thailand into Laos. On one of those flights in January 1969, Colonel Campbell was shot down. For ten years he was listed as Missing In Action and then his status was changed to Killed In Action — Body Not Recovered. That would be his classification until December 2016 when DNA discovered in a single bone and a single tooth would positively identify Colonel Campbell. And then last week, after nearly 50 years these remains along with a military uniform, a silver star, and a purple heart were finally laid to rest. It was reported that the urn containing his wife’s ashes would rest on top of the uniform in the casket.
According to the Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency, at the end of the Vietnam War there were 2,646 Americans unaccounted for. Today over 1,000 of those have been recovered, which means that 1,611 are still missing. If you drive across America you’ll find plenty of towns where the total population is around 1,611. Imagine one of those entire towns just missing. Now imagine the families of those 1,611 individuals; the uncertainty they must feel, the loss, the wondering, the sleepless nights. On today’s show, the final one of our series and our Memorial Day Special, we’ll devote the entire episode to one of those missing individuals and you’ll hear from some of his family. Who’s family? Well, it happens to be my family.
Welcome to the Memorial Day Special of the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. In the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people whose lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy, and stories of reconciliation. You’ve heard about the magnetic force that tugged and pulled some of our soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country. And today you’ll learn about one helicopter pilot who has yet to come home; my wife’s uncle Lieutenant Colonel Floyd W. Olsen.
But before we jump into today’s episode, allow me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the place to go to purchase the documentary film By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on your copy of By War & By God. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and reconciliation.
So today’s show is a little different and it’s a little more personal. Today you’ll be hearing from my mother-in-law and my wife. My mother-in-law, Sandy Sturch, is Floyd Olsen’s sister and my wife, Karen, is Floyd’s niece. Two of today’s interviews were recorded a few years back in my nice quiet basement, but one was recorded along China Beach on one of the trips I made to Vietnam to gather material for the film. So today’s episode is The Floyd Olsen Story, but who was, or, for reasons you’ll learn later, perhaps I should say, who is Floyd Olsen? Let’s find out…
Chapter: In The Beginning…
Kent C. Williamson: We’ll begin with my mother-in-law, Sandy Sturch…
Sandy Sturch: Floyd grew up with model airplanes in his room and always really wanted to be a flyer. We were World War II kids and always admired people that were involved in the war. When he was at Wheaton College he took ROTC which meant that when he graduated from college he was eligible to go into the Army, in fact was obligated to go into the Army, as a Commissioned Officer.
Kent C. Williamson: At that time Vietnam was smoldering. The war had yet to take it’s toll on the American people.
Sandy Sturch: Whatever our purposes were, we we’re going to go in and do and get out and I wasn’t much concerned about it. Until my brother was sent to Vietnam. I wasn’t terribly concerned about the first tour of duty. Many of our armed forces went to Vietnam to serve for a year and got back okay. But then as the war progressed and the years went on the word seemed to be you might go for your first tour and get back okay but not as many people went for their second tour and came back. So when he went the second go round, he was an Army pilot; fixed-wing first time, helicopter search and rescue second time. And in charge of helicopter maintenance throughout South Vietnam, that was really is primary duty. So I was much more concerned when he left the second time. But I still was convinced he would come back. Mainly because so many people were praying for him. And I really believed that when we asked the Lord to keep him safe that he would come back. I was confident. Some friends, very close friends begged him not to go the second time, because casualties were running very high by now. But he went back in 1967. And was getting close to the end of that tour of duty. Was engaged to be married. And in April of 1968 he went out on a mission to rescue a downed marine helicopter. And they were shot down by enemy fire.
Chapter: The Engagement…
Sandy Sturch: I mentioned Floyd was engaged to be married. And I had never met his fiancé. And so I had written to this girl in Illinois, Marilyn Hayes was her name, and introduced myself by letter. And Floyd wanted me to give her a ring on his behalf qnd he had bought a diamond just before he was sent to a tough area. And he said, “I’m uneasy holding on to this diamond. I’m sending it to you tonight, because in the morning I have to to leave and I don’t want to take this with me”. And I got this envelope with a little bulge in it. And I opened it up and here was this note from Floyd saying, “I know you think I’m crazy for sending this to you this way but I’m afraid to take it with me”. And so here was this, I think it was a carat diamond that he had wrapped in a little piece of tissue paper. That was it. He said I’ll tell you later what to do with it. So later he wrote and describe how you want me to have the diamond set. And so I did that and then invited Marilyn to Houston. It was right around Easter time. He sent me a note to give her, sealed in envelope of course, to give her with the ring and I was to hide it in the guest room. And let her go in there and find it and Floyd said, “as soon as she sees it she’ll scream. And she did. But it was fun. It was a lot of fun. I loved Marilyn as soon as I met her. We just had a great relationship instantly and we went out looking for a wedding dress. And she bought a wedding dress that same weekend. And when she flew back to Illinois, about the same time Floyd went out on his mission from which he never returned. And she waited three years for Floyd before she gave up.
Chapter: That Dreaded Day…
Sandy Sturch: That dreaded day came when my mother saw a man in a uniform walk up her sidewalk to her house. And by then people knew that when they saw someone coming to the home in a uniform it was not good news. So she received notification that Floyd had been shot down on April 21st, the year was 1968. The communications said that it appeared that the plane had exploded in the air and there could not have been survivors. It took two weeks to even get to the wreckage and only the tail section was found. And the rotor blades that were in the river near Hong Ha village in the central highlands of Vietnam. Because of lack of evidence of bodies. All six men aboard aircraft were listed as missing in action. When a full search could be conducted they found the dog tag of one of the men aboard the plane. And that was the only evidence that there was.
Chapter: He Left The Day I Was Born…
Karen Williamson: What I know about Floyd Olsen? Since I was a little girl I knew that he left to go to Vietnam the day that I was born. And that he never came back and that no one knew what exactly had happened to him. And to this day nobody has found him.
Kent C. Williamson: This is my wife, Karen Williamson
Karen Williamson: My sister and I used to go visit our grandmother. We would scrounge through the basement. And we dug up his old baseball glove and his trumpet. And every summer we’d pull those out and we’d try to play music on his trumpet or make a lot of noise with it. And we’d go across the street from our grandmother’s house and we’d play catch with his baseball gloves and his baseballs. And their were odds and ends throughout the basement. Trunks with a lot of his Army stuff that had been sent back from the War. And his yearbooks from Wheaton Central and Wheaton college that had his pictures in it. Our grandmother had a room at the front of her house that was her office and his pictures were all over the room and his flag was there. So he was very much present around the house and in our grandmother’s things and in conversation.
Chapter: Learning The News…
Karen Williamson: He was flying on a rescue mission. And that the weather was poor. And somewhere along the way the people that he was in communication with during that flight could no longer hear him and could not identify his location. And no one ever heard from him again.
Sandy Sturch: My mother was just beside herself. She was so distraught she couldn’t talk. My grandmother called me in Houston and said, “your brother has been shot down”. I don’t know that she new term Missing In Action at that point. She might have, I guess that was probably part of the report. They they could not say he was dead because I didn’t know that, but he was missing. So then I got on a plane and I flew to Wheaton to be with her.
Kent C. Williamson: When you hung up the phone, what was going through your mind?
Sandy Sturch: Well, of course disbelief. Always that first reaction of “this cannot be so”. My second thought was, “but wait a minute, get a hold of yourself, he’s just missing. He’s just missing. And you’ve been praying all the time that the Lord would take care of him. He can’t be dead. He’s just, he’s really missing. They will find him.” And I think that was my mother’s thought to.
Kent C. Williamson: So you flew up to see your mom in Wheaton? Tell me a little about that…
Sandy Sturch: Well it was as if he had died. All of our friends, we’d lived in Wheaton for many years, and people were just flocking to the house and consoling us. And in fact I remember feeling a little bit angry that everybody was talking as though he had been killed. Almost assuming he had been killed, acting like he had been killed. When I wanted to shake everybody and say well now wait a minute wait a minute you’re you’re going to fast we don’t know that he’s dead he may still be alive he’s probably alive. They just haven’t found. He just probably in the jungle somewhere. I do remember early on, maybe within a year or so after he was shot down, we were sent a picture. And we were asked does this look like – my mother was asked does this look like your son? And it was of someone in a POW camp. And we both looked at the photograph and of course it was not a good quality photograph. And I really thought it looked an awful lot like Floyd. If, you know, if they were asking me to make – “is this your brother?” I probably would’ve said, “it is.” And I think my mother would’ve said it’s her son. But not long after that we received a letter saying that this was not Floyd. That it was identified as somebody else. And that closed that case.
Chapter: Getting Involved…
Sandy Sturch: About 1970-71 I became involved in National League of Families of Prisoners Missing in Southeast Asia. The effort of that group was to bring public awareness of the POW-MIA situation to the American people. I don’t think anyone really wanted to believe that we left men over there. But people close to the situation many people felt that indeed we left a lot of men behind.
Karen Williamson: I remember when I was four or five years old that mom was going to appear on the news…
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Karen Williamson.
Karen Williamson: We all gathered around the television and we watched Mom answer questions about the POW-MIA movement. I have no idea what the subject was or the politics of it, but she appeared on the news and I thought that was pretty impressive.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: I found an old newspaper clipping from the Corpus Cristi Times where Karen and her family lived and where Sandy was involved with the POW/MIA movement as the founder of the local chapter. In the Friday, August 18th, 1972 edition at the bottom of page 2A there was a section called Action Line where readers would submit questions like these: “At what address can I reach Roger Staubach of the Dallas Cowboys?”, “What address is the local Civil Liberties Union?” And this one, “where can we get information on men whose names are listed on POW-MIA bracelets?” The newspaper would work to get answers to these questions and in the case of the bracelets they responded with a helpful mailing address to VIVA (Voices In Vital America) the organization that provided the bracelets and a follow up quote by Karen’s Mom explaining the $2.50 cost per bracelet. She said…
Sandy Sturch (actress): “This office keeps 50 cents of the $2.50 for office expenses, postage, etc. Two dollars is returned to VIVA. Of this 80 cents is their cost for making one bracelet. They use the rest to publish POW-MIA literature, pamphlets, bumper stickers, mailing stickers and for their office expenses and postage. They send POW-MIA literature to all the various POW-MIA offices in the country free of charge.”
Karen Williamson: I do remember as a four or five year old that I had a bracelet that I got from the POW-MIA office where mom spent some time, and I do remember that she was at that office a good bit of the time. And there was a big box that was just full of silver bracelets that had various peoples names. But I had one and it was a little bitty bracelet that had his name on it and it said, “niece.”
Sandy Sturch: My hope really had continued that when the list of POW’s came out my brother’s name would be on it. But it was not. And when that happened, I think that’s when I really came to grips with the fact that he had died in the crash. My mother who was a widow also had to come to grips with that. It was very, very difficult, because with an MIA situation you don’t have a body to bury. When there’s no evidence whatsoever you assume and yet you want to hope that maybe somehow, some way your loved one could still be alive. So there is this lack of closure and always wondering what really did happen.
Karen Williamson: At the ten year point, our family traveled from Texas up to Wheaton. I remember many of his friends and family gathered and there was a memorial service. I didn’t, again, understand the ins and outs of really what it was about. I was ten. That seemed to kind of close that chapter for the time.
Chapter: I Owe My Life To Floyd…
Sandy Sturch: Floyd’s area of expertise was helicopter repair. When helicopters went down if Floyd’s crew could get to it and lift it out of there then they would salvage the plane. And of course in that plane there was equipment there were records and so forth that may be helpful to the enemy. And a Marine helicopter had gone down. Floyd’s crew, they were on their way to try to get to that plane. This was not a flight that he should have taken. He was not scheduled to do this. I had heard from someone, not terribly long after the crash, we got a letter saying that the one who was supposed to take that flight had been out the night before drinking and had a hangover. And was not able to take it. I’ve since heard from that man — recently. And this man wrote and said, “I should, I’m the one who should of taken that flight and and Floyd took it for me.” And so he said, “I, I owe my life to him.” Which was very moving for me to read.
Chapter: 1998…
Sandy Sturch: I received a phone call one day from a very close friend of my brothers Dennis Stuessi. And out of the blue Dennis called and said that he and some other friends of Floyd’s—military men—had gone to the crash site and had searched for evidence. And in the process of doing this they noticed that in this village, which was very near the crash, Hong Ha village, there was absolutely no medical help for the people who live there. There was a very old medical clinic that had been abandoned. Where you could see through the boards and in that building there was one half bottle of quinine and that was all there was, and one glass vile. That was the total of their medical care. And so they felt that they wanted to do something in memory of Floyd. And so they built a clinic, a medical clinic, but it’s not a fancy clinic in American terms—very basic. And they were about to complete the clinic when Dennis called me and he said they planned to dedicate it on the thirtieth anniversary of the crash—April 21st 1998. And asked if I wanted to go to Vietnam with them to dedicate that clinic. And of course I was thrilled beyond belief that anything like this could have been done. When our small group of people went to Hong Ha village to dedicate the clinic all the people in the village came out to greet us. They had seen the clinic being built. We’re very excited about it. About six thousand people now have some degree of medical care because of that clinic. I cut the ribbon in the ceremony which was attended by villagers and of course our small group. But also communist, some communist leaders in that area. And as we went into the clinic to look at it, what grabbed me, gripped me the most of anything was the fact that there was my brother’s picture hanging on the wall with his testimony in English on one side and his testimony in Vietnamese on the other side of the picture. And I thought isn’t this incredible that in 1998 my brother’s picture would hang on the wall of any structure in a communist country. That’s when things came together for me I thought, “this makes sense. This makes sense this. This is my picture of how God works.” I learned early as a child and so did Floyd we memorized Romans 8:28—“For all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purpose.” And so I kept looking for the purpose in this. Why would God have allowed this to happen and I knew, I knew that God had a plan. We drove beyond the clinic down a hill to a clearing that a couple of the elderly Vietnamese men in the village had said is where the helicopter came down. And they stood outside our circle and we gathered and we had prayer there. Larry Ward drew me aside and he said in my ear he said, “I think one or maybe both of these two men were the ones who actually shot your brother down.” And this really moved me and instead of feeling resentment I just felt a great love and compassion for them. I had my picture taken with these men and I just decided that I would start praying for these people and these men in particular. And in the ministry that this hospital might become to them. To me this was closure, not that I’d still thought Floyd was alive, but I thought this makes sense of his death. And knowing Floyd in his Christian commitment, he would feel that if, somehow, someway this medical clinic could speak of Christ’s love to these people, this is how God wanted to use this tragic accident or event in the war, that there were there would be good reason for that to happen. So we left and I thought, “this is wonderful.” You know, this really made me feel that Floyd’s life was not lost in vain, there was some purpose to this, that God would use this for good. My mother, who never got over the grief of losing her only son, she had dementia very serious, very severely. And she hadn’t been able to talk, she had been able to connect with me whatsoever. I’m not sure she even knew who I was at that point, but when I learned about our going to Vietnam for the dedication I sat down in front of her and took her hands in mine and I told her what was about to happen. And she looked at me and her eyes got just as bright as I’ve never seen her, and that blank vacant look vanished and she said, “Isn’t that wonderful!” And at that point she had not spoken a word in a long time. So we got back from the trip and I gave her the report of the trip. And then that was in April and she died in August.
I had a marker placed not far from the clinic, it’s really on the other side of the river. I had the marker put there with an inscription—Floyd’s name and basic information about his crash. I had that put there, not because I’m convinced that Floyd is dead or because indeed Floyd is not buried there, but I wanted to mark the spot, so to speak. I wanted to mark the area so that anyone else who would ever come to that area might come upon that marker and know that there was an American who gave his life there, whether he was instantly killed, or gave his life in the other sense of never being able to return to his country. That that would mark the spot that something important had happened there and that the love of Floyd for the Vietnamese people and my subsequent love for the Vietnamese people, for this country, and overarching all of this our love for Jesus Christ, our desire to serve him, that this whole story—there’s a marker that that speaks to that.
Chapter: The Live Sighting Reports…
Sandy Sturch: Not long after that, I don’t remember how long it was, we started getting live sighting reports of Floyd. To this time we’ve received about twenty five of those reports. A couple of years ago I was told in Washington that there is more activity of Floyd’s case than any other MIA. There have been many searches for him. But on the live sighting reports every report ended the same that they did not feel that the witness was credible. Usually the witness wanted money in exchange for information, which our government would not pay. And so they would not verify any of these live sighting reports. But forty years have past and I’m still getting live sighting reports of Floyd being held in Laos. And so I simply don’t know. Because of the nature of the reports and the persistence of these reports through all of these years with no one ever having been paid money for the information, I think it is possible that Floyd is alive. Whether or not I’ll ever see him again I still don’t know. The current live sighting reports say that Floyd is being held in a small village of Laos. In an area of villages where there are reportedly forty two Americans being held. That he was with another man whose name was Larry Stevens. They were raising pigs and chickens and sticky rice for their survival. Floyd had married and this actually was in a report much, much earlier that he had married and had a couple of children. That Floyd had said that he wanted to come back to the United States, but only if he could bring his family.
Karen Williamson: Mom mentioned that she had been getting more live sighting reports from the Army. And she said she had been getting them all along but that she was a little bit caught off guard with their wording in one of the more recent reports. It mentioned that after all these years that he thought maybe now would be a time that he could, he might be able to come home. And it was the first time I really ever considered that possibly the Army could be wrong about his status. Or just the question of, “what if?” What if he really hadn’t died? What if they really didn’t have it right? What if they were wrong? And that immediately captured me and I couldn’t, couldn’t let that go.
Chapter: Interesting Developments…
Kent C. Williamson: In the early to mid 2000’s, our family began attending the annual League of Family meetings in Washington, D.C. At one of the meetings the name Larry Stevens came up…
Sandy Sturch: Now the significant thing about Larry Stevens is that at this meeting in Washington a mother went to the microphone to address the military and government leaders, in particular JPAC, the organization that conducts the that the search teams. At any rate a picture of her son had been passed across the border from Laos into Vietnam. I don’t recall to whom the picture was given, but it made its way to Washington where forensics experts verified that this was indeed a picture of her son. Now the live sighting report I had just received within two or three weeks of this meeting was that Larry Stevens was being held with my brother Floyd Olsen. That gave me the most hope. There was another report: one man aboard Floyd’s plane, his last name was Mackendance. He was positively identified by one of our return POW’s as having been held with him in the POW camp for a period of time then he was transferred on. Now if that is true. Then it would mean that someone did indeed survive that crash. So if one survived the crash then others could have survived crash. I can’t imagine how he has survived if he is alive, but yet I know Floyd and I know his background and I know how solid and stable Floyd is. I know of his deep faith in Christ. And if this was part of God’s purpose to plant Floyd in Laos for these years then if that is why God created Floyd and the role that the Lord had planned for Floyd, I, I do not question that. I do not question that. So through the years of wrestling with this and looking at the what if’s, maybe he’s alive, maybe he didn’t survive, does he really have a family, if he has a family that means I have a sister-in-law. If he has children that means I have nieces or nephews. I don’t know, I don’t know, but the bottom line is we received as believers and as followers of Jesus Christ we simply receive what the Lord has given us and we trust His sovereignty. And we trust His goodness and His mercy and His grace to bring something good out of the evil that that war perpetuated. That’s where I am at the moment. I’m, I am resigned to accepting and being thankful for however the Lord has used Floyd’s life. If Floyd was killed instantly, as the original report said, then the fact that we have not been permitted to know for sure has indeed resulted in a lot of good things; a lot of interaction of people who have come together to try to do something in God’s name in the Lord’s name for the good of the Vietnamese people and that’s, that’s what we’re about—that’s mission. That is the call of the Church. That is my call. I can have hope and I can be grateful and I can have joy in the midst of suffering.
Chapter: What If He Is Alive?
Kent C. Williamson: How would you feel if you found out he was alive?
Karen Williamson: I can’t imagine finding out he was alive. There was always the hope. I can’t imagine it really being true. I remember when I was in junior high school, it must have been related to something we were studying in school, but he, I had sort of this fantasy that he would just show up. He would return miraculously and life would just go on as it had, but now we would have Floyd again. I mean even as an eleven year old I remember just hoping and wishing that, that he would just come back. I can’t imagine what that would feel like, after hoping for so long. I hope that if he were to come back that he could enjoy the remainder of his life getting to know his family, living on American soil.
Kent C. Williamson: Let’s say we find Floyd. What are you going to say to him?
Sandy Sturch: If Floyd still has a sense of humor he’ll probably make some wisecrack about where he’s been all these years. That would be Floyd. He had a great dry wit. I don’t know what literally I would say to Floyd. I probably wouldn’t have words to speak. It would be so overwhelming. I have thought about not just the joys of seeing Floyd again and how wonderful it would be to have him back. But I have thought about the challenge. I’m his only living relative, except for my daughters and there families. Whom he has not met. I don’t know what condition Floyd would be in. And I have asked myself, “If Floyd is alive, and he came back, am I willing to set aside my life to care for him as long as I’m here. To do that.” And of course, I would do that.
Chapter: Remembering Floyd…
Kent C. Williamson: What does Floyd mean to you?
Sandy Sturch: Floyd is probably one of the most committed Christians I’ve ever known. And I never doubted that even as a kid. Floyd is one who if the Lord had said to Floyd, “I want you to give your life for these people, for the Vietnamese.” Floyd would have said he would do that. I don’t doubt that. Floyd loved the Vietnamese. He would write letters home from Vietnam about his love especially for the children of Vietnam. He was crazy about the children. And there were missionaries in Vietnam at that time, there were, that they had to leave when we pulled out and the Communist curtain came down on that country. The missionaries would give Floyd tracts, Gospel tracts, that he would drop from his plane over the rice paddies. To try to share the Gospel with these people. So for Floyd it was loyalty to our country, loyalty to the military, but also a deep love for these people and a desire for the Gospel to be spread. So I see Floyd is not just my brother I see him as a strong Christian and as a servant of Jesus Christ, who would have said, “whatever Lord, whatever you want with my life is what I want.” Yes, I always grieve the loss of Floyd. I wish that we could have spent our adult years together. And and I share Floyd’s feeling that if this is what needed to happen, for whatever eternal purposes for those people in Vietnam, then so be it. That’s the way we feel about it. There is a side of me that is almost more comforted to think that Floyd died instantly in the crash. That would have been the easier way perhaps to enter the eternal kingdom, than to go through what he has probably endured if he is alive. But if he’s alive I suspect there are others alive also, other Americans over there. I do not know God’s plan, God’s purpose, I cannot guess, but knowing that God has a plan and yet has not revealed it to me, I take great comfort in that.
Kent C. Williamson: You have kids of your own. What do you tell them? Who was Uncle Floyd?
Karen Williamson: What I have told my kids about my uncle Floyd is that he was their grandma’s brother. That he fought in the war and that his helicopter was lost and nobody ever found it. And that we believe that he died there, but they’re really only God knows. The difficult part is that, because I’ve never known him, I can pass on what I’ve heard, but it’s not, it’s not the same as them knowing him. So there will be pictures, he’ll be part of our family history. There will be stories of him singing with their grandmother as kids in church and there will be stories, but there really won’t be many of those.
Sandy Sturch: I don’t wanna hold Floyd up as a hero in one sense, because this is the call I think of every Christian and there have been many who have preceded Floyd, and many who will follow him.But I do hold him up as a young man who was faithful to his call.
Kent C. Williamson: In 2005 the organization Vets With A Mission began utilizing the clinic in Hong Ha Village. In 2011 they worked with the Vietnamese government to build a new larger and more modern clinic in Hong Ha. It’s known as the Floyd Olsen Memorial Clinic. As of this Memorial Day in 2017, my wife’s uncle Lieutenant Colonel Floyd W. Olsen is still unaccounted for. He’s one of 1,611 Vietnam Veterans who are still missing. The live sighting reports in their familiar brown envelopes have stopped arriving.
Turn Again To Life
If I should die and leave you here awhile,
Be not like others, sore undone, who keep
Long vigils by the silent dust, and weep.
For my sake – turn again to life and smile,
Nerving thy heart and trembling hand to do
Something to comfort other hearts than thine.
Complete those dear unfinished tasks of mine
And I, perchance, may therein comfort you.
— Mary Lee Hall
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this final episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. It has been one of my greatest honors to be able to tell the stories of these veterans we’ve been following all season long.
You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com and you can still use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film.
If you have any thoughts about this or any of the other episodes in the series, please send an email to me at Kent at By War And By God dot com.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter.
Special thanks to Rebecca Burylo and the Montgomery Advertiser for their coverage of Colonel Campbell’s story. Special thanks also to Leslie Wood for performing the voice of my mother-in-law as quoted in the Corpus Cristi Times, reading the poem Turn Again To Life by Mary Lee Hall, and reading the chapter titles in this episode.
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the entire soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com. Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 12 – Memorial Day Special: The Story of Floyd W. Olsen
PLAYERS: Sandy Olsen Sturch, Karen Williamson and host Kent C. Williamson
SUMMARY: One Vietnam Veteran still unaccounted for is remembered by his sister and niece in this Memorial Day Special.
LINKS:
US Wings Website – Average age of US soldier during Vietnam War was 22
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
Corpus Cristi Times – August 18, 1972 edition (may require subscription)
Montgomery Advertiser – Nearly 50 Years Later, Vietnam Veteran Finally Comes Home
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 11 — The Remarkable Legacy of Vets With A Mission
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SUMMARY: Vietnam Veterans discuss the legacy they desire to leave behind through the work of Vets With A Mission.
TEASER — Mike Bernardo: I’ve never seen a group that’s quite so generous and open hearted. And here they are being generous and open hearted in a country where people were shooting at them, and people were trying to kill them. So that’s to me, that’s something that will stay with me, is just the generosity and the openness and the kindness of these guys – really is remarkable.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: The average age of our soldiers during the Vietnam war was 22 (that’s according to the US Wings website). What that means is that today most Vietnam veterans are in their late 60’s and 70’s. The Vets we’ve been following in this podcast know that they can’t continue making trips back to Vietnam forever. As much as they love serving the people there, they understand that their final trip back to Vietnam looms on the horizon. And for the most part, they’re okay with that. They’ve been faithfully doing their work in Vietnam all the while knowing that at some point their mission will be complete. At some point their work their will come to an end. So when I sat down with each of these men I made sure to ask them about the legacy they’ll leave behind.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. In the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people whose lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy, and stories of reconciliation. You’ve heard about the magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country. And today we’ll talk about their legacy.
But before we jump into today’s episode, allow me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the place to go to purchase the documentary film By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on your copy of By War & By God. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and reconciliation.
In today’s episode we’re talking about legacy. Back in the 1700’s, Benjamin Franklin offered some good advice regarding leaving a legacy when he wrote, “If you would not be forgotten as soon as you are dead, either write something worth reading or do something worth writing.” The veterans we have been following in this series have been doing something worth writing about. Which is precisely why we made the film and created this podcast. So let’s examine the legacy that Vets With A Mission will leave behind. Alright, here we go…
Bob Peragallo: I think that people in our society have a very warped understanding of what war is all about. How it comes into existence, how it’s fought and what the after effects of war are. And how we treat each other, how we treat former enemies.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: There’s two, two aspects of war, it’s the people that you fight against – the actual soldier to soldier. And then there is the society that is affected by war. In America and in Vietnam, both societies were affected by war. Part of the healing process that Vets With A Mission was able to bring was to the social aspect, as well the actual soldiers that we fought against. And I would hope that Vets With a Mission would be a model, a frame work that others could look at and learn and see that, “Yes this is possible, that out of such tragedy and difficulty could come a ray of hope. And that we all don’t just become ravaging, angry bitter people; that we actually can have a transformation in our own selves and good can come out of that experience. So, I would hope we would be a model for other people.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: In a blog on the Huffington Post website back in 2015, Katherine Meadowcroft authored an article titled “What Is Your Legacy?” She wrote, “A legacy should be deeply considered. It takes on immortality, and it is how we live on after death. If we think of our legacy as a gift, it places an emphasis on the thoughtful, meaningful, and intentional aspects of legacy. The consequences of what we do now will outlive us.” I personally love the idea of a legacy as a gift to future generations. What kind of gift do you want to leave?
Kent C. Williamson: What do you want people fifty years from now to remember about Vets With A Mission?
Mike Bernardo: The main thing that people need to remember about Vets With A Mission, now and in the future and for generations is that – this was a bunch of guys who fought a war that was very difficult, very difficult for them. And because of the changes that happened in their lives as Christians, they wanted to go back and do something to help the Vietnamese people, and do something to make it right.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Vets With A Mission Medical Director, Mike Bernardo…
Mike Bernardo: I’ve never seen a group that’s quite so generous and open hearted. And here they are being generous and open hearted in a country where people were shooting at them, and people were trying to kill them. So that’s to me, that’s something that will stay with me, is just the generosity and the openness and the kindness of these guys – really is remarkable.
Kent C. Williamson: What do you think is the best thing that Vets With A Mission has accomplished?
Bob Peragallo: The best thing that Vets With A Mission has accomplished is a combination of all our work. If we were to put it all together…
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: …Our main purpose is we wanted to reconcile men like myself and other veterans to their war experience. We wanted to bring healing to them personally, but yet at the same time while doing that we would also bring healing to the Vietnamese people. Our motive as soldiers in returning to Vietnam – where that, we were really trying to help the Vietnamese people. I think that we have effectively done that, we’ve showed them that we are human beings and that we were more than just their enemy. For a period of time we were their enemy, but as we went back we became people that were there to help them through their misery and their suffering. The people that we met after 1975 and the late 80’s when we returned – they were an oppressed people. They were a people that suffered greatly, in just the physical aspects of life – mentally they suffered, psychologically they suffered. It was a tremendous tragedy that was unfolding that it appeared that nobody in the world really cared about. But here was a small group of veterans that would return and bring aid to them, and help them. And it spoke volumes to them, and it spoke volumes to us as well. But the real benefit was sending a message that, “Listen, this just wasn’t about conquering a nation or winning a war, it was much more involved than that.”
Roger Helle: It’s hard to probably define one thing that Vets With A Mission have accomplished in Vietnam, because there’s been so many.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: We’ve seen surgical procedures that have been provided by supporters of Vets With A Mission – that have literally saved children’s lives, adult’s lives. Surgical procedures that they could not afford, but if they had not had it they would not have lived. Medical care – in the early days, building a clinic in a rural area would take the infant mortality rate from 40% down to 3 or 4%. And I guess we looked at it as like giving a cup of cold water in Jesus’ name. And other things happening like sitting across the table from men that we fought against years before. Men that – they tried to kill us, and we tried to kill them. And having reconciliation, even to the point of seeing former communists that we fought against coming to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
Kent C. Williamson: When you look back at the work that Vets With A Mission has done, what jumps out?
Cal Dunham: What jumps out for me are the people that we have served.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: The opportunity to interact with the people – either in construction of a clinic, or just working in one of the clinics that we’d already established. These people began to one, see us as Americans in a different light. But we got to see them in a different light of just people helping people. What I hope the Vietnamese began to see was, that my heart was to help them. That there was no more animosity. I just wanted to help them, and when I was helping them, I was helping them in the name of Jesus Christ. I didn’t want them just to see another guy, that was over there just trying to do good for the sake of doing good. I wanted them to really see all of us as people that cared about them. And I think we’ve accomplished that. I think the people that we serve – they know we’re different – not just because we’re helping, but I believe they see Christ in what we are seeking to do for them.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: I’m a filmmaker, an artist, and a writer and as part of my legacy I will leave my films, my paintings, my poems and articles. Even this podcast in a way will become a part of my own legacy. What are you leaving behind? What gift are you giving to future generations? The legacy of Vets With A Mission will be seen in medical clinics and in lives changed and impacted both here in the States and in Vietnam. And it’s my sincere hope that their story (as seen in the film By War & By God and through this podcast) will inspire a soldier from Iraq or Afghanistan to do work similar to what Vets With A Mission has done in the countries impacted by our recent wars. That would be incredible. A link of sorts from one generation of soldiers to another, to continue caring for people impacted by war. That would be an incredible legacy.
Kent C. Williamson: Fifty years from now, what do you hope people know about Vets With A Mission?
Roger Helle: Fifty years from now, what do we want the people of Vietnam to think of Vets With A Mission…
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: My hope is — In the scriptures it says that in the early days of the church, they recognized the Christians by the love that they had for one another. It’s my hope that that they, their children, their grandchildren will remember that there were these Americans that came to Vietnam. And they did what they could to help us, and they loved us. I remember one time early on, sitting across the table from a former North Vietnamese colonel. In those early days they always ask us, “When were you here, where were you at?” Well as we were talking, I discovered that he was the commanding officer of a regiment of North Vietnamese regulars that nearly wiped my company out on a search and destroy mission. We walked into their base camp and we were overrun – we fought for five days in this battle in this valley, trying to keep from being overrun. And so, we had this awkward moment that he realized that I had lost friends, and he was responsible – it was his men that nearly wiped us out. And so, through the interpreter, he said, “Why are you doing this, why are you coming back to my country, why are you helping us?’ He said, “You know, this may seem like a small thing,” the project we did at the orphanage. He said, “May seem like a small thing to you, but it’s not to us.” He said, the Carnegie Foundation came to Vietnam and said, “We want to do something, and never came back. The Ford Foundation came and said we want to help you, but never came back. But you, you’ve done something and why are you doing this?” And I looked at that Colonel, and I said, “Sir, Jesus Christ has taken away all the pain and hurt that I experienced during my time in Vietnam. And because of that love that God has for me, I can say, ‘I love you’ and ‘Jesus loves you.’” And our interpreter down at the end of the table started bawling. And so we had the Americans on one side of the table and we had the communists on the other. And everybody’s looking down at the table saying, “What did this Yankee imperialist say to our precious sister that she’s sitting down there bawling?” A couple moments of silence, and our interpreter just finally stopped crying and she told the colonel what I said. And when she translated what I said, he looked across the table and his eyes were big, and he just looked at me then he stood up with his hands on the table and he came around the end of the conference table. And I got up, and he looked up at me – I’m 6’4 and he’s not. And he looked up and he just threw his arms around me and had tears just streaming down his eyes – and I just hugged him. And we got done, he looked at our interpreter and he said to her, he said, “Tell him I’ve never had an enemy tell me before that he loved me.” That’s what I hope, fifty years from now – that they’ll remember those acts of kindness, acts of love. Where we’d get beyond the war, and that Vietnam is a nation and it’s a people that God loves unconditionally.
Dave Carlson: I would like people to think…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…
Dave Carlson: …that God is so sovereign and powerful that He can take people who spent the best part of their lives, their youth. Who came over here to destroy and to kill, and to take territory, and to win. And then went home after a debacle of all sorts of international pressures and decisions to relative shame in their own country. He took those broken people, and he brought them back to the place where they fought. The most unlikely people in the world to take his message back, and to plant seeds of both reconciliation between our countries, reconciliation between individuals who fought, but also, salvation for those who fought who were tormented in their own minds and hearts. And salvation of the people that they came originally to hurt, and now they came back to save. And if anything, it’s proof that God can use anybody. Doesn’t have to be well trained, doesn’t have to be well spoken, doesn’t have to be evangelical, miracle workers. He can take soldiers, and people who are the least likely to be ambassadors. And can plant seeds that have amazing outcomes. That would be a great legacy for Vets With A Mission.
Phil Carney: What I would want people to remember about Vets With A Mission…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: …is that without question, Vets With A Mission was God’s idea. And it was something God raised up, and something God made happen, and something God has used. And I don’t say that to sound over spiritual. If anybody would have been watching the formation of Vets With a Mission, especially in those earlier days. I don’t think anybody would have probably from the sidelines witnessed what we were talking about, and who was doing it, and saying, “that’s a really good idea”. I think God raised up the most unlikely people. It was primarily Vietnam vets in the early days. All of us had issues that we hadn’t even dealt with yet. So the idea was, a bunch of Vietnam veterans that are now Christians – let’s find out if we can get back into Vietnam and see what we can do. I think any good mental health specialist would have said “That’s really a bad idea, you guys shouldn’t do that, something really bad is going to happen.” And yet, it was God. And I don’t remember any of us thinking in those early days, or any of the early board meetings and so on, thinking that it was going to have any longevity. Maybe we’ll do something 3 or 4 years, do a few trips, maybe develop some humanitarian projects. And here we are 25 years later, and to see the impact that Vets With A Mission has had on people that have gone on the trips, vets, wives of vets, such a diverse make up of people, and the impact it’s had on Vietnam. What I would want people to remember about Vets With A Mission, was that it was God’s idea – and he raised it up from the most unlikely sources and diverse make up of people. And has added to it, and grown it, and used it in a very significant way. I would just want people to remember and know that about Vets With A Mission. It really, really, really has been raised up of God and used of God.
Kent C. Williamson: With all the work that’s been done in Vietnam, how do you want Vets With A Mission to be remembered?
BREAK: Kent C. Williamson: But first, I want to give you a heads up about next week’s episode. It will be our final episode of the By War & By God Podcast and it will truly be a Memorial Day Special. If you listen to our show from beginning to end you know that I close each episode with this line “And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!” Well, in next week’s episode we will tell the story of my wife’s uncle, Lieutenant Colonel Floyd W. Olsen who was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam. In April of 1968 he flew his final mission; a flight from which he would never return. But as you’ll learn, even in death Floyd Olsen left a legacy; a legacy that lives on today in Vietnam. So please make sure you join us next week as we conclude this series. Now back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: With all the work that’s been done in Vietnam, how do you want Vets With A Mission to be remembered?
Pat Cameron: We built 21 medical clinics there. We built a church while we were there. And we built some great relationships with a lot of great Vietnamese people and that it’s gonna grow and make a huge impact that maybe I’ll never see.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: Twenty-five years from now, I don’t know if I’ll be here or not but it’d be nice to think that – they look back someday and say, “Those crazy vets made a huge difference to us that had nothing to do with the war.” I think that’s the key to Vets With A Mission. We’re not doing it because of the war. We’re doing it because – for the love of God and the – come back over there and reconcile with them that we love them. And that we want to help them. And that we know they need us and we need them. I think the impact – we’ll never know, maybe for 50 years or a hundred years what we will – what impact we made there. But I do know they know who we are. And I do know that there’s a lot of villages and a lot of Vietnamese over there that without us they wouldn’t – a lot of them wouldn’t still be living. A lot of children that’s gonna grow up and a lot of them going to remember what we did and tell their children. My big hope is that they know – one, the most important reason we’re there is that we’re serving the Lord.
Chuck Ward: Most of my life, I’ve struggled with self-esteem issues – rejection, that sort of thing.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: I don’t know if it was because I was always the smallest kid, the shortest guy in grade school and high school and college, sports – always the last one picked. Didn’t grow up in a very close family, or a lot of physical contact in my family, so I’ve always struggled with that. And it’s hard for me to separate what I want people to think about me, and think about Vets With A Mission. So, Vets With A Mission has been a savior for me, and the Lord allowing me to work in this ministry, to serve in this ministry as a volunteer and now being so involved as the leaders – one of the leaders of the organization. What I would want people to know or remember, my legacy. Is that I finally accounted for something. I amounted to something. I was valuable in my life. My life meant something. And the work that I’ve done will leave a legacy, regardless of my shortcomings and failures in my life. I’ve struggled being a father, I’ve struggled being a good husband. I’ve struggled in my career at times. But through this, I think I made a genuine difference, and that’s what I hope people would remember about me, and Vets With A Mission — that we made a difference — not only on this earth, but eternally.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Don’t forget to tune in next week for our final episode of the series, our Memorial Day Special, as we tell the story of Lieutenant Colonel Floyd W. Olsen.
You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film. You can also watch By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.
You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.
Special thanks to Ashby Wratchford who portrayed the voice of Benjamin Franklin in today’s episode. Thanks Ashby!
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com. Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 11 – The Legacy of Vets With A Mission
PLAYERS: Mike Bernardo, Pat Cameron, Phil Carney, Dave Carlson, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Bob Peragallo, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
SUMMARY: The remarkable legacy of Vets With A Mission.
LINKS:
US Wings Website – Average age of US soldier during Vietnam War was 22
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
Huffington Post – Blog Article – “What Is Your Legacy?” by Katherine Meadowcroft
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 10 — Reconciliation: With Self, Vietnam, and Former Enemies
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SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator?
TEASER — Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: The word “reconciliation” seems antiquated in this present age of divisiveness and polarization. It’s a word that has fallen from the common man’s lexicon into the pile of unused, unneeded, unspoken linguistic terms and expressions. In a world where friendships come and go, but where enemies can last a lifetime, it shouldn’t be surprising that “reconciliation” is seldom heard or spoken. After all, people might feel obligated to make and keep room in our vocabularies for such valuable phrases as “go to hell”, “F-you”, and “If I see you again before I die, it will be too soon.” But fortunately, that’s not the case for the Vietnam veterans we’ve been following in this series.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. In the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… and today we’ll hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, which, of course, is the result of a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we jump into today’s episode, allow me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the online store for Paladin Pictures. It’s the place to go to purchase any of Paladin’s films including the documentary By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on the By War & By God DVD. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and what’s that word? Oh yeah, reconciliation.
In today’s episode we’ll see what reconciliation looks like. What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and ultimately with your Creator? Alright, here we go…
Bill Steele: One of the most interesting things I experienced, there was a – there was a man on the team that I was on, who was a Vietnam Veteran, but had never really experienced closure.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bill Steele…
Bill Steele: He had been involved in a battle on the Mekong Delta, where a number of the people in his outfit had been killed. And Bill was still struggling with that, and while we were over there, he got a chance to go up the Mekong Delta, and actually went to the spot where this ambush had taken place. And after he returned from the Mekong Delta, he called his wife and they had a conversation on the phone, and she said, “You have just given me the 4 sweetest words I have ever heard from you.” And he said, “I just said 3 words. I said, ‘I love you.’” She said, “No, you said something else. You said, ‘my war is over.'” And that was, that was really something significant to me to hear this man say that – that was closure for him. And so, he was able to make that reconciliation with his past, and I think that was significant.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: In the 1800’s, an Americas great poets wrote a few lines called Reconciliation. Perhaps we can learn something from his perspective…
POEM: Reconciliation by Walt Whitman
WORD over all, beautiful as the sky!
Beautiful that war, and all its deeds of carnage, must in time be utterly lost;
That the hands of the sisters Death and Night, incessantly softly wash again, and ever again, this soil’d world:
For my enemy is dead—a man divine as myself is dead;
I look where he lies, white-faced and still, in the coffin—I draw near;
I bend down, and touch lightly with my lips the white face in the coffin.
Kent C. Williamson: What do you think reconciliation means? How would you define that?
Bill Steele: Reconciliation, I think has a couple of different interpretations as far as Vets With A Mission is concerned.
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Bill Steele…
Bill Steele: One obviously is I think that many of the veterans had the opportunity to reconcile with their past and to perhaps undergo a healing experience. And then there is the fact that we were at odds with this country. We were fighting one another, and now we’ve had the opportunity to be reconciled with them. To be able to help them – to help them overcome some of the difficulties that they’re experiencing in their country.
Bob Peragallo: Reconciliation and forgiveness are not the same thing.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: Jesus himself forgave everybody he ran into, but there’s not one person in the scriptures that ever asked Jesus for forgiveness. He automatically gave it. Reconciliation is more than that, reconciliation is when two people resolve their differences and they actually begin to work together. And our work in Vietnam could not be accomplished unless the government and the soldiers that we fought against allowed us to work together with them. We’ve accomplished some very powerful and dynamic things in Vietnam over the years, and that only came about because people that we met that we built relationships with partnered with us and allowed us to work with them in rebuilding and reestablishing—if it was health care or whatever it was in Vietnam that we were doing, orphanage work. So there was a partnering, and that’s what reconciliation is.
Cal Dunham: Reconciliation to me, as I look at what we’ve done in Vietnam, I have seen 2 or 3 things really that stand out.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: I have seen reconciliation with just the people of Vietnam. Those that we’re serving – when we’re helping them, we’re just looking at each other as people that are helping each other. So I see a reconciliation there. I don’t see an animosity of them toward us or us toward them. I have seen reconciliation with former enemies, where we have sat down at a table for dinner together. VC, NVA sitting on one side of the table, and a bunch of us sitting on the other side of the table. Just, in our way that we can communicate through interpreters or through broken english or whatever – being able to talk to one another. And I see the realization from both sides of that table. From the – by the end of the evening that we all had a mission, but now quite frankly – we’re just a bunch of old farts sitting there having a beer together and talking about the old days. For me – I have never seen anything, “Oh man I can’t wait to get out of here.” I just sit there and say, “Hey, this is great. This is great, ’cause – hey, we did what we did. And we both were doing it because – for whatever reason, our governments were telling us, ‘this is what we’re gonna do.’ But now, that’s all behind us. Let’s just have a good time.” And then the third part of that reconciliation, I’ve seen – I know, because it happened to me. I was able to reconcile in my own heart and mind some guilt that I had. Such a strong negative attitude toward the Vietnamese themselves – not just soldiers, but everybody. I’ve been able to reconcile that. There’s been a reconciliation in my own heart and mind, my soul, about the people of Vietnam. So that’s what it means to me, those – basically those 3 areas.
Kent C. Williamson: Define reconciliation for me. What does that look like?
BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: But first, Do you know that you can go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission? Yes, you! Whether or not you’re a Vietnam veteran, whether or not you’re a medical professional, you can experience some of the thrill of serving, of caring for the people in the rural villages of that beautiful country. You can experience reconciliation for yourself. Learn more about the upcoming trips at Vets With A Mission dot org and start making your plans today. Alright, back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: Define reconciliation for me. What does that look like?
Dave Carlson: Reconciliation to me means – taking people who have diametrically opposed vision or purpose…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…
Dave Carlson: …but finding those parts of what they are or what they do that can be aligned to work in tandem to go forward. We all know that two opposing forces meet, they don’t go anywhere, they just sit there and grind. But somehow, even people who are diametrically opposed at some point, can find a place where they agree, and where they can become brothers. And can make positive movement. And those two opposing forces go alongside, and move in a positive direction. That to me is one definition of reconciliation – there’s a lot of different ones. But in this case, we have former combatants who would actually sit down with each other and plan out what they could do to both improve the country, and improve the lives of the people who are the children of those that they fought. And that to me is reconciliation.
Kent C. Williamson: What does reconciliation mean?
Jim Proctor: When I talked to Bill Kimble in the early years, and some of the early board members, it was a two pronged process.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Jim Proctor…
Jim Proctor: They wanted to reconcile to some extent – especially the Vietnam Vets, with their experience over there, with the people. And at the same time, they wanted their people to recognize that there was a further reconciliation. And that’s reconciliation with Jesus Christ. And because Vets With A Mission has worked in a communist country, we sometimes have to downplay or be a little bit more discreet in the reconciliation of Jesus Christ. I think that’s where – just working one on one, or working on a project with someone – establishing a relationship is. I think for some of the Vets that have gone over there, it has certainly helped them to reconnect with the people, to see areas that they may have served in. I am so thankful that I didn’t have to fight a war over there. And it’s interesting when I’ve asked veterans – friends of mine if they want to go back, there’s no middle ground. There is either, “I’ve always wanted to go back, I love the people, I love the food, the country was beautiful.” Or there are people that don’t even want me to finish the question in a sentence. They’d say, “No way do I ever want to go back.” And I’m sure that’s related directly to their experience and what they experienced in the Vietnam War. And I have seen people that have had a certain hesitancy on these trips going back. They don’t know what to expect. And I know that that’s been important for them to go back there and see that, and see where they were at, and experience that again. And that helps them. It helps them with the issues in their life.
Bob Peragallo: I met a man in the Que Son Valley who – a Mr. Som. And he was the chairman of the People’s committee.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: And we built one of our early clinics in the Que Son Valley. And to do that there’s a lot of meetings that have to be attended, there’s a lot of preliminary handshaking. We have to have a beer together, we meet the People’s committee.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: The clinic that Bob Peragallo helped build for Mr. Som’s commune was the one he told us about in last week’s episode. As you recall, the area had a childbirth death rate of 33% and after Vets With A Mission’s clinic opened the death rate during childbirth dropped to just 3%.
Bob Peragallo: And we were having dinner together with the members of the People’s committee and a small group of us from Vets With A Mission. And we shook hands, and Mr. Som had a wooden leg, and I asked him how he lost his leg, if he’d lost it in a war. And he said, “Yes,” that a – he got shot by a machine gun. And so, we sat down and through the interpreters we were having this communication. And I told the interpreter I said, “Would you tell Mr. Som that I was a machine gunner. And the interpreter didn’t want to do it, and it got real quiet and everybody got hushed. And the Vietnamese around us through the interpreter knew what was going on. And finally I just said, “Tell him.” And so he told Mr. Som that I was a machine gunner and that I served in the Que Son Valley with the 9th marines. And I looked over at Mr. Som, and he smiled and kind of grinned a little bit, and then I told the interpreter. I, I said that, “I’d like to see how Mr. Som that I might have been the one that shot his leg off. And I don’t want to say that I’m sorry for doing that, but I want Mr. Som to know and understand that the war is over and at one time we – we could have been and probably were former enemies, and engaged in combat. But now we’re here together, working together to improve the quality of health care for his, for his commune. And Mr. Som stood up, and he shook my hand. And Mr. Som hugged me. And we embraced each other, and that was the dynamic moment in my Vietnam experience with Vets With A Mission.
When I talked with Mr. Som, in my experience with him. I know that I had forgiven him as an enemy before I ever spoke anything, before it had ever come out of me. It was something that happened deep inside of me, and the end result was that we embraced. And as as fellow warriors there was an honor, and there was something between us.
Chuck Ward: You may or may not know, but the founding scriptural foundation for Vets With A Mission, is 2nd Corinthians 5:18 – which is the Ministry of Reconciliation.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Nearly 2000 years ago, the Apostle Paul wrote a couple of letters to the people who were the church in the town of Corinth. In his second letter he wrote the part that Chuck Ward referred to which says this… “if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Chuck Ward: So Vets With A Mission has always been about reconciling people to one another. And in this context, country to country, Vet to Vet. And I’m talking about Americans, South Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, NVA. And I’m talking about people of Vietnam to the people of the United States. And most importantly, being reconciled to God. So Vets With A Mission, for many years would take American Veterans and introduce them to Viet Cong and NVA veterans at what we call reconciliation dinners. And it’s always very tense when those dinners start. But 99.9% of the time, the Veterans on each side of that table – by the time that dinner is over, they’ve got this special bond. And it’s not about winning the war or killing your enemy. It gets down to the lowest common denominator. Men begin telling one another, “I was just doing my job. I was doing what I was told to do. And I didn’t necessarily like it, but I did it, because I wanted to serve my country.” And soon these men who have issues – I mean, no one goes to war that they come back the same person, it just doesn’t happen. They begin to share, and it’s a very emotional time, and reconciliation becomes real. Because men who would have never thought of talking to one another – are talking about their families, talking about their children, talking about, “Let’s have a beer together, let’s get in touch, let’s keep in touch.” It takes place. And one of the most wonderful things about reconciliation is, you know, a lot of people struggled with Vietnam, particularly the Vets who served there. And through reconciliation, this is what happens. So many are stuck in the past, and they have so many terrible memories. And I like to make the analogy that Vietnam is like the pig in the pigsty. You’ve got the pig, and the pig is happy to be wallowing in that mud and filth and everything. And so, I make the analogy that – Vietnam is the pig, and you can go in there, and you’ve gotta wrestle with that pig – and you’re gonna come out smelling and looking like you know what. But that pig is gonna come out smiling and feeling good about itself. So why let Vietnam – why wrestle with the pig of Vietnam, and let it have that effect on you? Let it run your life, ruin your life. It’s time to move on. And through reconciliation, that’s what happens. Vets go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission. They meet their former enemy, they meet the people. And reconciliation comes full circle from the terrible memories of 1968 or 1969, to discovering the war is really over. And through reconciliation, that war within is finally over. And when I see Vets – when that lightbulb goes off, when they’re in Vietnam on one of our teams, and they realize the war is over – not only there, but over inside. It makes – that is a great day to be in Vietnam, on a Vets With A Mission Team.
Kent C. Williamson: One more time, Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: When the scriptures talk about God reconciling the world to himself. It’s not just that he forgave us of our sins. It’s us learning to work together with Him for the purpose of establishing His, his kingdom. We become partners with Him, and reconciliation is that. That we learn to work together—former enemies that were trying to kill each other, now are working together to build and repair the tragedy of war. The tragedy of, of such a, a horrible experience, out of it comes something that’s positive and good.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film. You can also watch By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.
You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter… except he’s missing today, so I don’t know if we need to credit him. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.
Special thanks to Trevor Przyuski for his wonderful reading of the Walt Whitman poem Reconciliation. Thanks Trevor!
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.
Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 10 – Reconciliation: With Self, Vietnam, and Former Enemies
PLAYERS: Dave Carlson, Cal Dunham, Jim Proctor, Bob Peragallo, Bill Steele, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
SUMMARY: What does it mean to reconcile with yourself, with the country in which you fought, with your former enemies, and with your Creator?
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 09 — The Amazing Impact Of Vets With A Mission
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SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans describe the impact they have in Vietnam through their work with Vets With A Mission, but we also hear about the impact that Vietnam now has on them.
TEASER — Cal Dunham: I tell you, a smile goes a long way. I can be hot and sweaty and miserable, but when that person looks at me and smiles, and in their smile they’re saying “Thank you”. It doesn’t get any better than that.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: One of the definitions of the verb “impact” reads, to “have a strong effect on someone or something.” The Vietnam war had an impact on our veterans. A handful of these veterans returned to Vietnam and had an impact on the people of Vietnam. The people of Vietnam then, in turn, had an impact on these veterans.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. And, by the way, I’m very pleased to announce that just this week we won another one. We picked up the Best Documentary Short Film Award at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma. Thank you Bare Bones! This season on the podcast we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… and soon we’re going to hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, which, of course, is the result of a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we jump into today’s episode, let me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the online store for Paladin Pictures. It’s the place to go to purchase any of Paladin’s films including your copy of the documentary By War & By God, so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on By War & By God. And remember that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and reconciliation.
Today, we’ll learn about The Amazing Impact of Vets With A Mission. And we’ll also learn about the impact that the impact has had on those doing the impacting…
Kent C. Williamson: Of your seven trips back to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission, what would you say is your best memory?
Pat Cameron: Well, the best memory is the first trip…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: The Lion’s Club had given me about 10,000 pair of eyeglasses and quite a few pair of sunglasses. And we were going to start seeing patients. And I was going to go through all the eyewear – separated the mens and ladies and children – and I was going to be able to try to match that prescription up as close as I could. And provide them with some eyewear so they could read and see. I had this feeling that maybe something cool – something neat’s going to happen. Maybe the Lord going to do something to really show me a miracle. Here I am asking for a miracle. And it’s my first time over there. Well it’s five o’clock their time – we’re getting ready to – we’re seeing our last patients. And the last patients is a 7-year old girl. Tim came downstairs with her mother and said, “I doubt we can do much for her, Pat” And he handed me that prescription and it was for bottle-cap-type glasses; about +10 power. And he said, “I know you ain’t got anything.” I went over there and there was a set of kid’s glasses that were bottle-caps, +10’s, within very close to her prescription. And I pulled those out – I looked at them but I ain’t got no idea how them glasses got in there. And I put those glasses on that little girl and – her eyes were already a little large for the – with the eyewear but they got huge. And she said something in Vietnamese to her mother and her mother looked over at me and started crying. And my translator said, “This child has never seen her mother. And she never seen anything except blurriness – pretty much light, dark, and blurry.” She could see leaves, she could see – she’d never seen stars. She’d never seen her daddy or her sisters and brothers. And if that ain’t a miracle, there never going to be one. I sit there and cried with her mother. That life of that child and that family – and maybe that whole village when they heard the stories – changed. It changed me. That made it perfectly clear to me why I was sent. And that’s probably why I’ve come back so many times. Because I know that every time we go back we can make an impact. That’s a moment that will never leave me. I’ve told the story a number of times to people. It’s just a cool story. Just a cool story.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your best day with Vets With A Mission.
Steve Scott: They’re all good. It’s all good.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Steve Scott
Steve Scott: I am most comfortable when I’m hot and sweaty and out in a Montagnard village with people that I know need my help.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: A leftover term from the French Colonial era in Vietnam, Montagnard means “people of the mountain”. These indigenous people groups occupy the Central Highland area of Vietnam. Influenced by French Missionaries during the 19th century and American missionaries during the 1930’s many Montagnards converted to Christianity. This caused them to be viewed as suspect by North Vietnamese forces during the Vietnam War. Estimates are that over 40,000 Montagnards fought alongside the American forces, but when America withdrew from Vietnam in April of 1975, these Montagnards were left to defend themselves. As a result, many were put to death by the communist regime while many others fled the country in an attempt to save their lives.
Steve Scott: I am most comfortable when I’m hot and sweaty and out in a Montagnard village with people that I know need my help. Be it a seven year old that needs a heart operation – and I’m the guy. I do triage, so I see these people first. First person that sees them, and sometimes I’ll have this kid come in with club nails and they’re cyanotic, and I know full well they need heart surgery and I’m the guy that can send them to the doctor and get it started and we can save that kids life. So, I mean, that’s priceless. I also feel just as good if an old lady comes in and she’s got aches and pains and I can talk to her, and I can speak enough Vietnamese to talk to her and find out that – you know, I can relieve her pain. I can make her feel better when she goes home. So, yeah, those are the priceless things. So, I don’t particular care for staying in the four star hotels, or any of the tourist stuff anymore. I’ve been there, done that. I really like to go out in the villages. I suppose, if I could do anything I wanted, I’d just be the barefoot doctor who wanders around Southeast Asia with a backpack full of medicine.
Jim Proctor: I would say that my best day in Vietnam’s probably one of the hardest days in Vietnam.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Jim Proctor…
Jim Proctor: I was working security. Again, it’s a communist country, they’d pretty much decide who can come in and who can’t come in. And they have to have the right paperwork and everything. And it was very tough when you could see the desperation in some of these people’s faces. That they wanted to get in and they wanted to see the American doctors. And they had an issue, and they wanted to get healed. We could only let certain people in, and that was very tough. And there were – sometimes ladies that looked like they were in their 80’s, certainly maybe in their 60’s and 70’s crawling over barbed wire fences, or trying to get over the gates with the little pointed arrow type things that are to keep people out. And actually having to pick them up and put them outside of the gate because they couldn’t get in. And that was, that was tough – but at the same time, that is something that has stuck with me. It really affected how I felt about it, and the desperation, and can relate to that. And so, while that is one of the – probably the toughest day, I think it was one of the best in the fact that it really humanized that for me. We’re affecting people’s lives.
Bill Steele: The people who were able to take advantage of what we were offering had been invited by the Vietnamese government to come. They had to have it – it was invitation only. And this lady showed up and she didn’t have an invitation.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bill Steele…
Bill Steele: She had a little baby with her, a little girl that was probably a year, year and a half old that was sick. And she wanted medical attention for this child. And she saw me, and she knew I had to be somebody, because I obviously wasn’t Vietnamese. And she came up to me, and she approached me – because we couldn’t communicate language-wise, but she helped me to understand that she needed medical attention for her child. And I felt – I was able to take her to one of the Vietnamese doctors and to explain the situation, and get the child looked at. And it just, it was so heartwarming I think to be able to do a little something that was perhaps above and beyond the call of what we were supposed to be doing there.
Kent C. Williamson: What would you say is your best experience with Vets With A Mission?
BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: But first, Do you know that you can go to Vietnam with Vets With A Mission? Yes, you! Whether or not you’re a Vietnam veteran, whether or not you’re a medical professional, you can experience some of the thrill of serving, of caring for the people in the rural villages of that beautiful country. Learn more about the upcoming trips at Vets With A Mission dot org and start making your plans today. Alright, back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: What would you say is your best experience with Vets With A Mission?
Cal Dunham: My best experience with Vets With A Mission…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: As strange as this sounds – the joy of carrying a little old lady – or a man, or a little boy, that needs to get up the stairs to see the doctor. Or get down the hallway to see the doctor in the clinic. Of picking them up and holding them, to get them where they need to get, if they can’t do it on their own. And they just look at you, and smile. I tell you, a smile goes a long way. I can be hot and sweaty and miserable, but when that person looks at me and smiles, and in their smile they’re saying “Thank you”. It doesn’t get any better than that.
Kent C. Williamson: As you recall from last episode In the early days of the organization, Vets With A Mission, helped build a therapy pool for a polio orphanage in Saigon. This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: We met a couple that were married with two children.
Kent C. Williamson: Both the husband and the wife had polio.
Roger Helle: There was just something about the, it was actually the husband. Here he is, he’s got polio, his children did not. And so, I asked them, where they met – and they had met at the orphanage when they were children.
Kent C. Williamson: The same orphanage in Saigon where Roger had been years before.
Roger Helle: For years now I carried little happy face stickers in my pocket. And so I looked at them and said, “When you were a child, do you remember some Americans coming to your orphanage?” And I held up one of the little stickers and both of them, their eyes just got big and they said, “Yes.” And I said, “That was us.” And just the fact that, full circle, 20 years later -because of an act of kindness – we couldn’t share the gospel in words. I think it was Francis of Assisi said, “Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words.” And while we could not use words to share the love of Christ, we did it in acts of kindness. And here was that couple 20 years later that had come full circle. And we had come full circle as a ministry – and that was probably one of the most exciting days that I can remember. You know, he had the same smile he had when he was a 10 year old kid. And here now, they were believers and they were going to a church that Vets With A Mission supported in Saigon. And 20 years after we met them as children in a polio orphanage, now here they had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ – and married and in the church that we were supporting. God has an incredible sense of bringing things to your awareness, to let you know that what you’re doing is making a difference.
Kent C. Williamson: What’s the best memory of your experiences going back?
Phil Carney: Wow, well I guess my best and most impacting memory going back was the first trip.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: We were out at Marble Mountain. We had come into a real large village full of people. It occurred to me that during the war something really significant had happened in that village – or near that village. What had happened back in 1970 when I was there was – we were out on a small operation, and we had stopped to have lunch, and our squad leader had told us to break out chow – C-rations and so on. And I had a can of C-rations in my hand.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: C-rations or Type C-rations were pre-cooked individual meals ready to be eaten out in the field, straight from the can. Other types of rations include A-rations… meals for troops that are prepared with fresh, refrigerated, or frozen ingredients, B-rations… meals for troops prepared with canned or preserved ingredients, K-rations which contained three meals to cover an entire day and provided up to 3000 calories for airborne troops, tank corps, and other mobile units, and D-rations which were chocolate bars designed, with the help of Hershey’s Chocolate, not to melt.
Phil Carney: And I had a can of C-rations in my hand. And I remember just sitting on my helmet and looking at this can of C-rations and this old mama-san had found her way and she got up behind me and she tapped me on the shoulder – and it just startled me. And I remember standing up and spinning around, and I had that can of C-rations in my hand. And I was so angry at her because she scared me and startled me. And I, just out of my anger and frustration, I took that can of C-Rations and I threw it at her. And I hit her right in the chest, I hit her as hard as I could with that can of C-Rations, and she just crumbled right in front of me; knocked the breath out of her. I remember she reached and grabbed that can of C-rations, picked it up, got back up on her feet, bowed, and said thank you, and hobbled off. It was one of those moments where you go “Boy, you didn’t know that was in you.” So in 1989 on my first trip back to Vietnam, we’re in this village near where this incident happened in 1970. And all of these people are coming out of the village, and they’re figuring out these are Americans and they were here during the war. I remember a lady came out that would have been our age now, but she worked in the laundry on the Da Nang air base during the war. And all she could remember was English slang words from the war, from the ’60s. And I remember her running out and trying to communicate with us and she was saying “You are groovy, you are psychedelic, Jimi Hendrix, far out man.” And those kinds of things were going on, and everybody was having a moment. And many of these Vietnamese were coming out and they were presenting us with things they had kept from the war. The flag, remember one person came out and gave a chevron, a corporal rank of a corporal chevron to one of the guys – that this person had had since the war. And the best thing that happened to me on any of the trips was in that moment, and there were hundreds of people everywhere, and it was such a God moment. That a lady came up to me – a lady. And this lady handed me an old, empty, wore out can of C-rations – and she handed it to me. And I remember standing there looking at that, and that moment was the most incredible moment. It couldn’t have been more real if Jesus himself had been standing there, and handed me the can of C-rations. It was if I went back in time to 1970 when I was an 18 year old kid standing there, and doing what I did. That was without a doubt the best day, and the best trip with Vets With A Mission. That was unforgettable, and it was a very healing moment.
Kent C. Williamson: In Vets With A Mission’s early years the Vietnamese government, although closed in some areas and restricted in others about religion or faith being shared by Americans, would let Vets With A Mission do things in exchange for medical team assistance or the building of a health clinic. Here are a few of those stories…
Dave Carlson: We were traveling with a van driver across the Mekong River, into a fairly remote part of Vietnam called Bac Lieu.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…
Dave Carlson: This van driver had been chosen by the government. He was not to interact with us. He was really only there as a perfunctory – we have to have somebody driving us. And he was Buddhist. And he would stand by the side as we’d make our rest stops, and we’d go in and we’d get a bottle of water. And we’d be laughing with the people who were selling. We would be telling jokes as best we could. Just – human interaction. And we’re driving, and the translator comes up to me, grabs me by the collar and says, “This man wants what you have.” I said, “He wants my money?” He says, “No, no. This man wants whatever joy it is that’s in all of you in this van. He’s been driving for years. He has never seen people with such joy on the inside. That they would somehow release everything in their life and just pour love out to other people.” The van driver wants that. I said, “He’s in luck, we’ve got a van full of pastors. We’ve got pastors here who can…” And the translator pulled me by the collar and says, “No. He wants you to tell him what it is that’s going on.” “I’m a CPA, I don’t do this for a living. Okay, fine.” And we talked about Jesus. And we talked about the joy that will fill your life as you release the tensions of this world, and turn it over to him. Anyway, the van driver said, “We must pray.” And I’m watching the traffic coming at us, and I go, “Yeah, I’d like to do a little prayer right now. I want to pray that we survive.” He says, “No, he wants you to pray with him now, to help him accept Jesus.” “Well, I am not worthy of this. This is nothing I’ve done. This is my friends. They’re more qualified.” “No, it’s you.” And so we prayed while driving, what seemed to be 130 miles an hour between mopeds in this van, for this man to accept Christ. And I was overwhelmed, but that was an amazing experience.
The last one I’ll tell you about… we were meeting with the underground church in the Mekong River. At that point in time, the Vietnamese government was not friendly toward the Christian church in general. And so, this particular church would bring floating barges out into the middle of the Mekong, and lash together. And they would float down the Mekong River and have their services, and then they’d disperse – so that the local authorities wouldn’t be involved. And we come zooming up in this little skiff, and we’ve got six or seven pastors on board, and we’re gonna get to meet with this underground church. And several of them are gonna get to bring the message. The translator comes up, and he grabs me by the collar and says, “You will speak.” And I said, “No. We’ve got qualified people here. They’ve come thousands of miles, they’re here to preach.” He says, “No, you will preach.” And I’m thinking, “Lord, what are you doing?” And I reached back to something I remember as a kid, and I stood up there, and began to talk about that, “When you make a commitment, it’s got to be public. And that it’s gonna cost you something. You may have a family that’s not agreeing with your personal beliefs. It’s gonna cost you something with them. You’ve got a government that does not really want these beliefs to be spread among these people. It’s gonna cost you something. And here we are on this boat right now, and we’re safe. But if you do decide to turn your life over to Christ, the commitment is gonna be real, and it’s gonna cost you something. But the benefits far outweigh anything you can even imagine.” Well, I don’t know what the translator said. I have no idea what he was actually teaching these people. And maybe he never translated a single word. And I know that whatever words I had didn’t come from me, because I said, “Lord it’s yours – I have no idea. I should be telling these people how to file their income taxes.” But, at that moment when we got done, they began to rise up. And the translator turned to me and said, “They want to be baptized.” And, “Lord, oh my goodness.” He says, “You will get in the river and baptize them now.” And I said, “Okay, I’m drawing the line guys. I’ve got six pastors sitting here who’ve come 10,000 miles to have this experience. And I don’t know why I’m here right now, but you have got to let these men baptize these people.” 200 people got off that boat that afternoon, and were baptized in the middle of the Mekong River. And I just was sat down and I cried, I just cried. I never thought I would have an opportunity to be involved in ministry. Never thought I’d have an opportunity to share my faith. Never thought I would see anything, and yet – for whatever reason, was given an opportunity to see an incredible site. It was one of the defining moments of my life, and I would say that was the best.
Kent C. Williamson: What was your best day going back? What was your best memory?
Chuck Ward: One of my favorites is probably one where Joette and I had met a Vietnamese woman – young woman – really was my wife’s friend.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: We kind of befriended her, and she had a shop near China Beach. And so, we became friends with her, particularly my wife. The friendship grew into – almost like family over 8, 9 years. And of course, we shared the gospel with her when we could. I tried to do it mostly by example and Joette was able to just share things with her woman to woman. And one time during a difficult time in her life, she asked me a lot of questions about Jesus and about this faith we have – being a Christian. And I knew a Vietnamese pastor from America, who happened to be in Vietnam at the same time as I was, and he was in Da Nang. And I asked him to go by and talk with her – ’cause I thought she was ready to hear the gospel. That was early in the day, and later that day in the afternoon, Joette and I went to Ho Chi Minh City, Saigon. And we’re at a grocery store on the second floor of the Tax Trade Center, buying some snacks and things and we get a call on our mobile phone. And it’s our friend and she’s crying. And, between the sobs, she proceeds to tell us that she’s just been baptized in the river in Hoi An and she has come out of the water, and she just can’t stop crying, she feels so good. Well Joette and I start crying, right there in the grocery store. And this Vietnamese staff person comes up to me and says, “Sir, I’m sorry is there something I can do? What is wrong?” And I didn’t know what to tell her. I didn’t want to tell her that this person had accepted Christ, because I didn’t know what kind of person she was. Or if she was a government person. And I remember, I said, “No, everything’s okay, I’m just happy that I found the Oreos.”
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save five bucks on your copy of the film. You can also watch By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.
You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com. The film will screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. I hope to see you there.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.
Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 09 – The Amazing Impact of Vets With A Mission
PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Dave Carlson, Phil Carney, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Jim Proctor, Steve Scott, Bill Steele, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans describe the impact they have in Vietnam through their work with Vets With A Mission, but we also hear about the impact that Vietnam now has on them.
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 08 — The Work Being Done
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
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SUMMARY: Vietnam Veterans tell about the work they’re doing today in Vietnam.
TEASER — Bob Peragallo: The Que Son clinic had a death rate of child birth of 33%. And in the first year after our clinic was opened, the death rate of newborn babies dropped to 3%.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: What do you get when you take a van full of Vietnam Veterans and a van full of U.S. Medical Professionals and drive them out into the jungles of Vietnam? This isn’t a joke by the way. The answer is that the Vietnamese people living in those rural villages get access to healthcare that they may never otherwise receive. And that right there is a major part of the work of Vets With A Mission.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. It’s a place where we can go deeper into the stories of the lives of these veterans than we’re able to in the film. This season we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. If you’ve been following the podcast you’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… but you’re also going to hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, all of which is the result of this magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we jump into the show, let me tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the online store for Paladin Pictures. It’s the place to go to purchase your copy of the documentary By War & By God (along with Paladin’s other films), so please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five bucks on By War & By God. And remember that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to the non-profit Vets With A Mission, the group we’re talking about in this podcast that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why do they go back? For healing and reconciliation… and all the things you’ll learn about in today’s episode and the next few shows..
Today, we’ll hear about The Work Being Done… But as you recall from last week, in the late eighties and early nineties, Americans weren’t going back to Vietnam. So for this group of Veterans who wanted to do something good there they had to find work that they could help with, so they made a couple of fact-finding trips back to Vietnam to meet people and line up projects. We’ll jump in right there…
Phil Carney: Well on the first trip they had made contact with a Catholic nun, Sister Jean Marie, who had run by herself a polio orphanage in Saigon.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: She had no support or help, but she gathered up all of the Polio orphans off of the streets, and did her best to care for them. And that was the initial contact Vets With A Mission had made on their first trip. So on the second trip that I was on there was a small project to build a pool, a swimming pool for some water therapy for her kids, as well as bring different supplies and so on. To help that pool, so the thrust of that trip was the polio orphanage in Saigon.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Polio or poliomyelitis is a highly infectious viral disease that storms the nervous system, and may result in total paralysis within hours. According to the World Health Organization polio has decreased globally from an estimated 350,000 cases in 1988, to only 37 reported cases in 2016 due largely to vaccination efforts. Vietnam was certified as being polio-free in the year 2000 while the United States became free of the disease back in 1979.
Bob Peragallo: We built one of our early clinics in the Que Son Valley.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: The health center had a general care facility, it had a dental unit and it had a birthing unit. The Que Son clinic had a death rate of childbirth of 33%. And in the first year after our clinic was opened, the death rate of newborn babies dropped to 3%. And our investment in that commune was twelve thousand dollars for this health clinic. And so, a twelve thousand dollar investment in this rural area that served thirty three thousand people – that’s a lot of bang for your buck.
Mike Bernardo: The clinics that we work at…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Vets With A Mission Medical Director, Mike Bernardo.
Mike Bernardo: They’re usually well maintained brick or concrete, cement structures.
Kent C. Williamson: Describe the conditions…
Mike Bernardo: Fairly sterile – when I say sterile, I don’t mean sterile in terms of germs. Sterile in terms of the amount of things there to sort of soften the features of the rooms. Usually there’s a – maybe a chair or a couple of chairs, or just a wooden bench, or a wooden bed. So, fairly sparse. But not a lot of supplies, not a lot of medication – and certainly not – not of any medications. Most of them or very few. Some basic supplies, but not a lot – and not a lot of equipment.
Tom Love: The conditions in Vietnam are not unlike a lot of other conditions. You go to a village that’s sort of a shock at first, but after a period of time, you begin to realize that this is not unusual in terms of third world treatment, and what you see.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Tom Love…
Tom Love: We go out to the rural parts of the country, we’re not in the big cities. You really see the poor people, and the primitive situation they live in. Single room homes. They’re dirt floors, they have little or nothing – I mean little or nothing. You look around and they have nothing. They have a set of clothes that they’re wearing. Maybe the second set of clothes is on the line drying from the washing. Their kids are happy and joyous, with what little they have, and I think that really touches you. But I think overall it’s a struggle. And you see the wrinkles on their hands and their feet. You know that their back breaking jobs of planting rice, and they’re stooped over. We’ve observed them in the fields as we pass by in a bus. It’s – I think it really touches your heart that you’re really making a difference in their life.
Kent C. Williamson: What was the worst case that you saw over there?
BREAK: But first… Have you been to Vietnam on a trip like this? What was your experience like. Record your response on your phone and email it to me, or type it up and send it to me at Kent at By War And By God dot com; that’s Kent… K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to hearing about your visit. And we might put some of your stories into a future episode.
Now back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: Several of the people in today’s episode are NOT Vietnam veterans. Vets With A Mission doesn’t require you to be a Vet to join them on their trips. Some of the people your hearing today are medical professionals, CPA’s, and businessmen. People just like you who decided to go… to make a difference; who answered the call, so to speak. Alright, now let’s really get back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: What was the worst case that you saw over there?
Mike Bernardo: There was a young guy who was out working in his field, working in the field behind his house about seven years ago. Hit an unexploded land mine that exploded in his face.
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Mike Bernardo…
Mike Bernardo: So when we saw him, his face was disfigured and scarred. He actually was missing an eye, it was a very traumatic thing for him. And we were able to connect him up with surgeons in Hue, and they were able to fit him with a prosthetic eye, and to help correct some of his scars. So that was the most, I’d say the most meaningful encounter we had was with him. There were some other folks that we actually were able to help. One lady we were able to give her a glucometer. She was a diabetic, had no way to check her blood sugar, and we were able to get them a glucometer and supplies for her to monitor her sugar. Which was a great – a great thing that we do in the States that we take for granted all the time, that she had no ability to do.
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Tom Love…
Tom Love: When we take out a tooth that’s abscessed, infected, that somebody’s had pain and problems for maybe a year or two – that tooth is gone, that’s the end of the problem. And so I think we, in the dental field, feel a lot more – sense of accomplishment, because we’re able – actually able to finish off a process, and that’s a good feeling.
Tim Schwulst: I worked at the optometry unit. And gave – helped fit glasses after the optometrist looked at them.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Tim Schwulst…
Tim Schwulst: The only problem we had there was, we ran out of men’s glasses, and so we were trying to give women’s glasses to these Vietnamese men, and they were having kind of a problem with that. So we had a few tense moments there when that guy refused to put the pink glasses on.
Pat Cameron: I’ve had patients that I could do nothing for.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: Cataracts over there are horrible. We didn’t have the equipment or the staff to do anything and it was so – so sad that they came in and you – they think if I gave them something it was going to help them. Sometimes I just gave them something. Like the cataract people, I just give them a set of sunglasses. Give them something. Because sunglasses would at least help the brightness. Because obviously, lights a real sensitivity problem with them.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Speaking of cataracts… I made two trips to Vietnam while filming material that ended up in By War & By God. On my first trip, some friends in the United States had given me money to help the people there however I saw fit. One morning while I was filming the daily Vets With A Mission medical briefing the doctors mentioned seeing an elderly woman at the clinic the previous day who could benefit from cataract surgery. Vets With A Mission coordinates these procedures with hospitals and doctors in Vietnam and the cost there is only a few hundred dollars to fix both eyes. Following the discussion of the old woman’s cataracts one of the team members stepped up and volunteered to cover the cost of one eye… and then the room got quiet. At that point I turned my camera off and set it down. I reached into my pocket and pulled out the money my friends back home had given me and I laid it on the table. And THAT easily we helped a woman blind with cataracts be able to see again. I like to think of that grandmother staring at her grandkids as they play in the village. And all it took to make that happen was a few people who cared.
Mike Bernardo: When we go and do a medical team with the Vietnamese people, they’re very appreciative, very kind. They seem to be very gentle souls…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Mike Bernardo…
Mike Bernardo: They are definitely appreciative of the care that’s given. No matter what it is that we give. Even if we can only give them a few bags of medications. They’re very appreciative of anything that we do. So yeah that’s a big – that’s a big difference. And certainly in the States we have patients that are very grateful for what they get – what kind of care we give. But, it’s different, it’s different there – there’s a much higher level of gratitude. Gratitude is a major part I think of why people from the US want to go back, because that sense of appreciation that comes from the Vietnamese.
Chuck Ward: Vets With A Mission has had some great days in Vietnam, and we’ve had some bad days.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: And for me, the worst day was back around – it was the year 1999 or 2000. And we had a medical team that was going to two villages out in Khe Sanh Valley and it was always difficult to get permission to go to these villages. The government didn’t want you out there, but we’d gotten permission to go to these two villages. Primarily because someone on our team was a Vietnamese-American, who actually grew up in that village. So we were very excited about going there. About a month before the trip, I had written a letter and appeal for Vets With A Mission, that went to everyone on our mailing list. Well, one of the people on that mailing list was a social work professor from an upstate New York university. He happened to be in Da Nang, where we were, doing a social work project in conjunction with the government. Well, when he got that letter, he disagreed with it’s content. And the content was about a Vets With A Mission team that had gone to Khe Sanh the previous year. And the day before we got there, an individual had stepped on a land mine or had disturbed a grenade in the soil. Horribly wounded. When we got to visit this village in Khe Sanh, which was tribal people, ethnic minorities – this individual was dying. Well, we arrived in our vans. We always brought supplies and gifts for the chief and the people at this village. Well they came running to us and had us go to this hut. And we go in this hut and this guy is laying there, horribly wounded. So the Vets looking around saying, “Wow, this guy really needs to be medivaced, he needs a doctor, he needs to go to the hospital now.” And we, there was nothing we could do, except pray. So we did. We assembled around, we laid hands on him, preyed on this poor farmer, and then we left. So now, it’s a year later. And I mentioned sending out that appeal, and the social worker, professor got – well, when he found out we were in Da Nang, he was livid. He thought the letter was hocus-pocus. He didn’t agree with it. There’s no way something could happen that I put in that letter. And what happened in that letter is that I explained how a year later, we went back to that village. The village people came out running, so excited to see us. The chief came and said, “Come, come, come.” We went and met this young man, who had exploded that mine or that grenade. And he was absolutely well. He hadn’t even gone to a doctor. So for us it was a miracle. And the village chief even said it was a miracle. Well, this social worker in Da Nang disagreed. When he found out we had a medical team in Da Nang, he went that afternoon to the government and told them a pack of lies. That we were gonna distribute bibles when we saw the patients that we were gonna pray for every patient. We we gonna try to do miracles. And of course, that just freaked the government out. And they cancelled our visit to those two villages. And because of that social worker, two villages, approximately 1200 people received no healthcare, and they stopped our team from working for two days and we just sat around the hotel. And that’s one of my worst days in Vietnam with Vets With A Mission.
Kent C. Williamson: What are some of the most exciting things that you’ve seen Vets With A Mission be involved in over the years?
BREAK: But first… We’re giving away the soundtrack to the film By War & By God, so if you like the music you’re hearing, go to By War And By God dot com, click on the Soundtrack item on the menu and download all 8 tracks of Will Musser’s great score. It’s free! I’d be grateful if you did two things… first, tell a friend about us, and second, leave us review on iTunes. Your words will help others know that this show is worth listening to. Thank you!
All right, let’s get back to this episode…
Kent C. Williamson: What are some of the most exciting things that you’ve seen Vets With A Mission be involved in over the years?
Jim Proctor: We’ve built well over 25 medical clinics. The fact that now we’re going back and staffing those and training those. That’s exciting.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Jim Proctor…
Jim Proctor: Because the organization’s always been trusted by the Vietnamese Authorities, they’ve allowed certain latitudes and us to do certain things that maybe some other organizations haven’t. And one of them was printing Bibles. Vietnam has had a lot of people when it first started opening up in the late 80’s and 90’s that wanted to go in there and work on projects and do things. But it was for the splash in the pan, the effect. And sometimes those people would complete a project and then leave. I mean, there are stories of well-known evangelists, well non-profit type people that would go over there, and it was more of a PR-type thing. And they would do some work, but then they’d leave and everything would go back to normal. Vets With A Mission has always been low key. We don’t care if we get the big press and the big recognition. And we just do what we’re supposed to. And then over a period of – well into 5 to 10 year period, we had had that trust with the Vietnamese government – as much as communist government will trust people. Because the pendulum swings back and forth, as to whether – how much they trust you and what their comfort level is. So, we just always built up that track record that we did what we said we were gonna do. And sometimes to the surprise of them. Because they – our projects got done quicker, sometimes under budget. They were first class. I mean, some of our medical clinics have become prototypes for the country. So, from that respect, we had the credibility, and that has allowed us a certain flexibility. To do things like – even at one time, to print Bibles. Again, the pendulum swings. I think there has been times when they’ve been more open to allowing some evangelism or some evidence of Christianity. And there’s been other times where that’s just not an option, you just don’t even bring it up.
Dave Carlson: I had probably some of the most memorable experiences of my life.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Dave Carlson…
Dave Carlson: What I didn’t expect was to get the opportunity to actually see the results of some of the work we were doing. On that trip, was my first opportunity to see what Vets With A Mission was accomplishing with our vets. To me it was all about doing something in Vietnam for the Vietnamese. But there was one individual on our trip who had not had a night’s sleep in 30 years, since he left the war. He had some real serious issues. His whole goal in going on this trip was to be sure to visit the field where his best friend died. And I’m sure he had tremendous survivor guilt. Of course, a lot of these veterans went home believing they had destroyed a country, believing they had destroyed a people. And instead, when he landed in Saigon and spent the first couple of days there – something inside of him healed. He slept like a baby for the first time in 30 years. He came away, no longer really wanting to see where his friend was killed. He wanted to do something positive for the country, but he was relived of the guilt that he had been carrying for decades, that he had destroyed these people or destroyed this culture. And he hadn’t – they’re wonderful, they’re beautiful people, they’re loving, they’re fun, they’re full of joy. And he walked back into that and said, “Then it’s all okay.” And he could sleep. And I had never known the therapeutic value of going back to country. That these veterans were – have an opportunity to participate in. Since I wasn’t a vet, I really couldn’t understand that, but I got to see it first-hand.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. A quick reminder to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss an episode. Please tell your friends about us. You (and they) can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save some cash on your copy of the film. You can also watch the By War & By God for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.
Find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com. The film will screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So check it out if you can.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.
Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 08 – The Work Being Done
PLAYERS: Mike Bernardo, Pat Cameron, Dave Carlson, Phil Carney, Tom Love, Bob Peragallo, Jim Proctor, Tim Schwulst, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 07 — Going Back To Vietnam
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
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SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans sense a call to go back to Vietnam to do good and Vets With A Mission is born.
TEASER — Pat Cameron: From day one from when I walked off the place and just saw the people. Smelt the air; smelt what was in the air there. Smelt the… the country. It’s what — I just knew that it was different.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: When the Vietnam War ended and our Veterans came home to America, some of them swore they’d never return to Vietnam. For some the pain was just too much. For others they got out alive and they wouldn’t be caught dead back in Vietnam. But a few of these Veterans soon started experiencing a growing desire to go back. At first it was just a thought. A thought that grew into a calling. They had unfinished business in Vietnam, they felt their story there was not yet complete, they wanted desperately to write another chapter; to do something to help the people in the land in which they fought.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. It’s a place where we can go deeper into the stories of the lives of these veterans than we’re able to in the film. This season we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… but you’ll also hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we get into the show, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the place to go to purchase the documentary By War & By God (and a few other films), so if you need a copy please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save some money on the film. How much money? One-hundred-thirteen-thousand-eight-hundred-and-fifty Vietnamese Dong… or five U.S. bucks. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why do they go back? For healing and reconciliation… and all the cool work you’ll be hearing about over the next few shows.
In today’s episode, we’re Going Back To Vietnam. Let’s jump right in…
Kent C. Williamson: What made you decide that you wanted to go back?
Phil Carney: Well, I think like many Vietnam vets…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: …after the war I did the typical thing, kind of spent a decade self-medicating, and had a lot of issues. But I always had it in my heart. I just always felt like I left Vietnam with unresolved issues. And it was always kind of an unspoken desire and dream, especially after I became a Christian — “Wouldn’t it just be great to go back and do something?” And I had no idea what that meant. And of course in that era of time, it was not a possibility, it wasn’t even a reasonable rational thought. Nobody went back to Vietnam. But I had it in my heart. And so when somebody, when this missionary approached me in a church service and made known to me there was an organization that was being developed called Vets With A Mission. And they were going to be able to possibly, actually go back to Vietnam, and take some vets back to Vietnam and just see what they can do. It just so matched what was in my heart. And so I was just all in.
Bob Peragallo: My reaction to it all was both a very natural, physical draw but yet at the same time I knew and understand – understood – that my faith was involved in it.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: My faith could not sit on a church step. That my faith could not just be an inactive component of who I was. I believe decisions were made beyond myself that opened up opportunities for me to actively participate in returning to Vietnam. First out of curiosity, and that curiosity develops into purpose. And the first trip back was in 1988, and then the second trip was in January 1989 and from those two trips we felt that we needed to organize this and become a Humanitarian organization in Vietnam. And Vets With A Mission took off from then, and has been going up till today.
Kent C. Williamson: When did you first learn about Vets With A Mission?
BREAK: But first… Did you serve in Vietnam? Would you ever consider going back? I’d like to know, so please tell me why you would or why your wouldn’t. Record your response on your phone and email it to me, or if you prefer typing, go for it. You can send it to me at Kent at By War And By God dot com that’s Kent… K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to hearing why you would or wouldn’t go back to Vietnam. And we might put some of your stories into a future episode. Now back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: When did you first learn about Vets With A Mission? This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: I first learned about Vets With A Mission in 1988. I was invited to go Focus On The Family in California – Doctor James Dobson. And when we were there we were gonna tape a series of three programs dealing with how Vietnam affected people and then how that affected the family. And there were three veterans on the panel, myself, another gentleman, and Bill Kimball. And Doctor Dobson always takes people into a room and talks to them before he interviews them. And so he said to Bill, he said, “Bill, I understand you’ve just come back from a fact finding trip to Vietnam.” And he said, “Yeah,” and that was it. We went on and talked about other things. So afterwards I said to Bill and his wife Rosa, I said, “Can we take you guys out to dinner? And I want to hear more about what you did.” And so, that’s how I got introduced to Vets With A Mission. And that was in August 1988 – in January I was making my first trip and what I thought at that time, my only trip back to Vietnam.
Kent C. Williamson: And how many times have you been back since?
Roger Helle: I’ve made 17 trips back to Vietnam since I first went with Vets With A Mission in January of 1989.
Chuck Ward: In 1991, I’d gone to a conference for Vietnam Vets…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: I was at a message board. I’d left my business card there. Because I’ve had this, this yearning to go back to Vietnam. Didn’t know how to do it. And so, I put a little note on the message board for all the veterans at the conference with my business card. And it just simply said, “Interested in going back to Vietnam to do something good. Call me.” And all my business cards were gone in 2 or 3 days, but no one ever called. So I went one more time before leaving the conference to check that message board. There was no messages, but this really tall guy was there, and it was Roger Helle. And he looked at me, and I looked at him, and he said, ”Well, I just came back from Vietnam 2 weeks ago.” And that’s how I met Vets With A Mission.
Roger Helle: The first trip we made back to Vietnam in January of 1989, there were 10 of us.
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: It was kind of an interesting trip, because the plane – they had us flying around in circles because they wouldn’t turn the runway lights on for some reason for security purposes. And so they had the plane land at the end of the runway and a truckload of soldiers armed with AK-47s came and walked through the plane upon landing before we were allowed to deplane just to let us know that we were not in Kansas anymore.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: Back in those days the – everything in Vietnam was minimal. Everybody was on the verge of disaster, everything was run down, the state of everything was just horrible.
Phil Carney: I was on the second trip that Vets With A Mission took back to Vietnam.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: There were 2 trips in ’89 and I was on the second trip late in the year. It was surreal. We couldn’t get Visas from the United States. Nobody was going to Vietnam, we couldn’t get Visas. So we actually got our Visas through Mexico. And we flew on Air France, it was the only airline that would fly, or that did fly into Vietnam – it was the only airline that flew. I remember landing at Tan Son Nhut Air Base in Saigon, and all of the old hangars were still there from the war. But, there was no airport. When we got off of the plane there was a metal hut sitting at the end of the runway that had an electrical cord hanging from the ceiling and a light bulb. And there was a Vietnamese soldier sitting in that with an AK-47 and he had no idea what to do with us. We showed him our passports, and he didn’t know what to do with them. There was no stamp. There was nobody – especially Americans, coming to Vietnam. And so it was just strange. The most overwhelming, or not overwhelming, but just strange was how quiet it was, and how minimal the activity was. The airbase, there was nobody there. There were no people there. And driving in to Saigon there were no cars. There were just a few people on bicycles. You could literally walk for blocks and just see a few people. There was nothing in the stores. The country was absolutely devastated, and there was just nothing there. I remember nobody believed that we were Americans, they thought we were Russian. And when we would show them our passport and explain to them, and convince them that we were from America, the reception was just overwhelming, and they were so excited to see Americans. And so those are some of the stand outs that I remember initially – how quiet it was, there was no air traffic compared to the war – there were planes and helicopters flying non-stop. There were people everywhere. It was noisy, it was loud. There was stuff going on, and it was so quiet, and so few people out on the streets.
Cal Dunham: The feelings I had going back to Vietnam ran a whole gamut.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: When I got off the airplane there were the military standing there with machine guns, rifles. And they were watching you as you got off the plane, processed through. And I must admit I remember quite vividly when I stepped through, there were three guys standing there, three Vietnamese army guys, standing there just giving me “the look”. And I looked at them, and I quite frankly thought, “I don’t know if we won or lost, but I could still kick your keister back to Hanoi.” And I had to say to myself, “Lord, this cannot be how I’m going to spend this summer in Vietnam. I’ve got to have something happen to me – that’s going to change me, so I don’t have those kind of feelings of hostility.” The first nights were very difficult because I could hear people outside my room, talking in Vietnamese. And it would bring back the memories that I remember – laying out in the jungle, in ambush in the middle of the night, hearing Vietnamese voices out in the jungle. I saw real quickly, that many of them were already past the war. I hadn’t progressed from it, but they had.
Kent C. Williamson: Let’s talk about going back. What was it like to return with Vets With A Mission?
BREAK: But first… We’re giving away the soundtrack to the film By War & By God, so if you like the music you’re hearing, go to By War And By God dot com, click on the Soundtrack item on the menu and download all 8 tracks of Will Musser’s great score. It’s free! I also want to say “thank you” for listening and I want to ask you to please tell a friend about us. Think about that person…. Who is it that needs to hear this podcast? Would you do me a favor and tell them? Thank you! And one more ask… would you please go to iTunes (or wherever you get your podcasts) and leave us a review. Your words will help others know that this show is worth listening to. All right, let’s get back to this episode…
Kent C. Williamson: Let’s talk about going back. What was it like to return with Vets With A Mission?
Pat Cameron: I had no idea what to expect when we went back.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: I think I was excited. I think maybe I thought it was a calling from my Lord and Savior. I didn’t know really what to expect. From day one from when I walked off the place and just saw the people. Smelt the air; smelt what was in the air there. Smelt the… the country. It’s what — I just knew that it was different. I knew it was Communist. I could just see the – I could tell by the guards and by the guys carrying the guns at the airport. And by the way they were controlling things that it wasn’t like any other country that I had gone in with a Visa. I’d just – and then as the – we got settled in, I was – I’m pretty adventurous person and I started – I went out on the streets and walked. I got to feeling that – I didn’t feel – I felt comfortable. I didn’t feel like there was any anger. I felt like it was kind of safe. Didn’t feel any of that when I was 19 – promise you.
Chuck Ward: It was the summer of ’92 when I made my first trip with Vets With A Mission to go back to Vietnam and it was not that big of a deal.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: I didn’t have any quote “issues” when I went back that time with Vets With A Mission. It was just – it was really a great trip and – a great trip. A lot of evidence of the war still. A lot of tanks and armored personnel carriers, and helicopters and things like that – all over the place. Lots of ordnance many, many craters. I mean, you could tell there was a war even though it was a little over 15 years since it was over. But it was the second trip to Vietnam, when I went back – 1994 – that surprised me very much. I really had issues with anger, survivor’s guilt. And that was a tough trip. And often I would get in these silly arguments with Vietnamese – were the goofiest things. I had sent a number of faxes to Bill Kimble, who was the president – founder of Vets With A Mission. He was in another city and I was kind of helping, leading a construction team. We communicated by fax in those days, no mobile phones. And at the end of the week, the hotel double charged me for the faxes. I mean, we’re talking about 25 or 50 cents here per fax. We’re not talking like $100. But, what I was dealing with, that pushed me over the edge, and I got into this huge argument with the Vietnamese on the other side of the registration desk at the hotel. It got so heated that I started to climb up on the desk, and one of the other team there from the Vets With A Mission, grabbed me by the back of the shirt, and pulled me down. And I blurted out, “You know, I think I shot your father.” I was so ticked off about that. That was a terrible thing to say. That was a terrible witness for Christ. But the survivors guilt, and the anger, the frustration I’d been holding in for a long time – over 20 years – finally came out that day.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Every Veteran has to deal with their Vietnam experience in their own way. Sometimes it comes out in anger, sometimes it comes out in fear. But two things these Vets have in common is that they’ve all been shaped by war… and by God. That’s why we named the film and this podcast By War & By God. Their faith has led them back to Vietnam and in the process they’ve found some sort of healing.
Kent C. Williamson: What brought about the change?
Steve Scott: I can tell you how I changed and when I changed, but I can’t tell you what causes that.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Steve Scott…
Steve Scott: I think that’s bigger than me and I don’t understand. I feel truly blessed for being called. And I’ve read all the biblical things that I can get my hands on, but mostly I remember reading somewhere that God calls everyone but not many answer. For some reason, I was receptive, I answered.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Just a reminder to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and please (did you hear that, I said “please”) please tell a friend about us. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. A reminder to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save some cash on your copy of the film By War & By God. You can also watch the film for free if you have an Amazon Prime account.
Find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email your thoughts about the show to Kent at By War And By God dot com.
The film will be at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma on Saturday, April 22nd where it will screen at the historic Roxy Theatre. By War & By God will also screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if check it out if you can.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the interviews in today’s episode.
The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and for a limited time you can download the soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.
Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
Next week on the By War & By God Podcast…
EPISODE 07 – GOING BACK TO VIETNAM
PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Phil Carney, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Bob Peragallo, Steve Scott, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 06 — Dealing With Your Baggage
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SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans deal with their PTSD and speak of their desire to return to Vietnam.
TEASER — Pat Cameron: But the average 19-year-old, 18-year-old, kid that went over there didn’t come back the same… did not come back the same.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: For whatever reason, when I travel I prefer to handle my own baggage. Occasionally there’s an awkward moment in front of a hotel when the concierge calls the bellhop over to take my luggage and I have to politely wave them off while trying to grab all my bags, not leave any behind, and not knock anything over as I continue on my way. Often I’m overloaded with bags hanging from my shoulders and suitcases in tow, and if the family’s with me, pillows and stuffed animals jammed in my armpits. You know the guy I’m talking about. You’ve probably seen him yourself… well, that’s me. I long to be the guy with just a single bag and a wad of cash for tips, but most of the time, I’m not. I’ve got baggage, and lots of it. Of course, physical baggage, as messy as it can get, is often easier to carry than emotional baggage. When our veterans returned from Vietnam they often brought both. An over-stuffed duffle bag can be dumped onto the bed and sorted through or it can be tucked into a closet and forgotten about. But the emotional baggage that flew back from Vietnam with our veterans was a different story altogether.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. It’s a place where we can go deeper into the stories of the lives of these veterans than we’re able to in the film. This season we’ve been telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ve heard stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… but you’ll also hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we get into the show, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is the place to go to purchase the documentary By War & By God, so if you need a copy please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save one-hundred-thirteen-thousand-eight-hundred-and-fifty Vietnamese Dong… or five U.S. bucks on the film. And don’t forget that 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why do they go back? For healing and reconciliation.
In today’s episode, Dealing With Your Baggage, we’ll learn a little bit about a thing called PTSD. We’ll learn that trying to take the war out of the man is not an easy task. And today we’ll hear about the first hints of desire these men had of returning to the land called Vietnam. Alright… here it is…
Chuck Ward: When I finally had to face the demons of my Vietnam experiences that weren’t that bad…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: So just imagine the poor Marines and soldiers, 13 and 12 months of being on the ground and involved in activity and firefights and ambushes, you know, every two or three days. And just imagine how it impacted them, if it impacted me this way. The survivors guilt was a big motivator, a big influence, in my life. Because of the five of us on our high school bowling team one never went to Vietnam, four went to Vietnam, and I was the only one that came back alive. The other three were all killed in Vietnam. That bothered me a lot. You know, ‘Why me?’
Kent C. Williamson: What were the kind of injuries that you saw people coming back with?
Pat Cameron: Lost arms and legs…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: Most body injuries in the chest, they died. But, you know, quite a few amputees. And quite a few people that went crazy. They went absolutely in the loo-loo bins. And those were the ones they put on the street first… the ones that looked like they were healthy physically, but they weren’t healthy mentally. I don’t think I was healthy mentally. I mean to this day I take depression medicine. I’ve been taking depression medicine ever since, you know, for years… For almost 20 years now, I’ve been on depression medicine, you know. I just think war is hell. It’s just not good. You can’t put people in a battle. Now there are some gung-ho guys that wanted to go back more than once, and people that went back three and four times. I don’t know if it was just a rush for them, or what. But the average 19-year-old, 18-year-old kid that went over there didn’t come back the same. Did not come back the same. But I saw a lot of fear involved in people that came over, especially when they first get there. The first time you land in a foreign country, and you ain’t even been to a foreign country in your life… you’re 19 years old, and now you go in a foreign country and you don’t even speak the language, and then you got people shooting at you… How do you prepare for that?
Kent C. Williamson: Now they talk a lot about PTSD. Was that even on the radar back then? Was there any discussion about coming back and processing what you’d been through?
Cal Dunham: No. No, there was nothing like that…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: …at least to my knowledge. That’s not to say it wasn’t there, but I was young and I thought, “I’ll just suck it up, and I’ll get through this.” So I just tried to do it on my own. I didn’t really recognize it for what it really was
Kent C. Williamson: And how did that go? How did the “sucking it up” part work for you?
Cal Dunham: I could suck it up for a while, and then after Fran and I got married, just a few short months later we could be sitting in the apartment and I’d just start to cry, and I’d just say “Fran, I’m going out for a drive” and I’d go someplace and then I just… I wasn’t a heavy drinker but I’d just go to a bar and have some beers, or I’d go someplace and just park because I didn’t want her just seeing me sitting there and seeing me being melancholy and crying. So, you always kept a good face. You just buried it and kept a good face.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Post combat effects had been seen in other wars, but the term PTSD or post-traumatic stress disorder came about in the 1970’s as a result of the Vietnam War. The term was officially recognized by the American Psychiatric Association in 1980 in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
Bob Peragallo: PTSD is like good wine: the older it gets the better it gets.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: One of the signs of post-traumatic stress disorder is you don’t think you have it, and that should be at the top of the list.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: In 1983, at the request of Congress, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs conducted a study into the prevalence of PTSD and other post-war psychological problems that our Vietnam Veterans were experiencing. The National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study consisted of hundreds of questions that sounded like these:
Questioner: Question H48D: Did you fire a weapon in a combat situation?
Question G48. Did anyone in your family or household ever spank or hit you hard enough that you had marks or bruises, had to stay in bed…
Question C3: How many times (if ever) have you been divorced?
Question R477. Have you thought that you lied pretty often since you have been an adult?
Question R426. When you were growing up, did you ever have any contact with the police or legal authorities for something they thought you had done, not including trouble with parking tickets?
Question K31. Did you have any problems at that time that you felt you couldn’t discuss with any friend or relative?
Question R452. Have you ever had sex with as many as ten different people within a single year (including your wife)? Homosexual or Heterosexual?
Question U2: Other than for weddings or funerals, have you attended services at a church or other place of worship since you were 18 years old?
Kent C. Williamson: The study found that over half of the of the U.S. participants in the Vietnam War experienced PTSD or partial PTSD symptoms. That’s over 1.7 million of our veterans.
Kent C. Williamson: How were you treated back home?
BREAK: But first… Did you serve in Vietnam? Did you suffer from PTSD? Or perhaps you had a family member who served and you’d like to ask them what there experience was like. Please record it on your phone and email it to me, or if you prefer typing, go for it. You can send it to me at Kent at By War AND By God dot com that’s Kent… that’s K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might just put a few of your stories into a future episode.
Now back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: How were you treated back home?
Pat Cameron: I’ll be honest with you, as a corpsman I got more respect in the Marine Corps than I did anybody.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron.
Pat Cameron: The Marine Corps thought of us as salvation, especially the ones who had been over there and gotten back. I mean, once they knew that I had been over there it was just like… I wasn’t like an idol… but I was treated with the utmost respect and got many Thank You’s from the service side. I never did get any accolades from the public, from people. Never. Not even my family. My own family, you know, they just… But then again, I didn’t sit down with them and talk about some of the stuff I went through, Kent, I just wanted to keep it inside. But I kept it inside of me for 30 years. That couldn’t have helped me, I don’t think.
Bob Peragallo: There was no gratitude, no “Thank you for your service”, none of that. There was nothing, absolutely nothing.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: In fact, most people burned their uniforms when they got discharged. I never was that radical. I still was very proud of what I did in my service, but I sure was confused about it. All of a sudden I was the bad guy when I came home. I was as bad as the, in some cases worse than the enemy that we were fighting. So, you had to stuff it, you had to put it in a bag and stick it in a locker somewhere and lock it up, and not let any of that come out.
Kent C. Williamson: How did you deal with your Vietnam experiences?
Bob Peragallo: I try to describe it like an electrical panel that’s wired for 200 Amps, and Vietnam was 1,000 Amps, and it blew the circuits out, and so the only way that you were going to get through the emotional connection to your Vietnam experiences… you couldn’t reset the breakers. You kind of left them unsaid. You couldn’t process certain things, you couldn’t become close, you isolated yourself, you wouldn’t talk about Vietnam. What we now know, after all of these years is that the worst thing you can do for post-traumatic stress disorder is not talk about it. I was married probably, I’d say 8 to 10 years before I really told her my Vietnam experience.
Pat Cameron: I had one guy that I lost when I was over there, that was going to be leaving the next day to go home. So he didn’t make it.
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: How do you process that at 19?
Kent C. Williamson: How did you process it?
Pat Cameron: Oh, I don’t know, maybe about a half a fifth of liquor and sitting around with your comrades. We didn’t sit around and talk about somebody dying. We might for a minute, you know say we really hated that Jim didn’t make it. But if you processed it too much… the longer you were there the less you processed it. When you first get there you worked in fear; when you’d been there a while you worked through it; then when you get close to coming home you worried about dying. And I will live with it until I die. That’s just going to be the way it is
Roger Helle: When I was Medevaced out of Vietnam the plane took off, and sometimes the Communists would sit at the end of the runway and take shots at the planes that were taking off, and so what the plane had to do was they had to just get as high up as they could, as fast as they could.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: …and the plane banged over Da Nang Bay, and you know Vietnam was an incredibly beautiful country, and I’m looking at the emerald green waters of Da Nang Bay and the sandy China Beach and the mountains right there around Da Nang Bay, and as beautiful as it was at that point if I never ever went back to Vietnam again, if I never saw Vietnam again, that would be too soon. And for the next few years, four to be exact, I was kind of in an emotional, psychological wilderness of not understanding PTSD, not understanding survivors guilt, trying to wear a mask that I was okay, you know. I was proud of serving my country and being a Marine, so I wore that mask for about 4 ½ years. But unfortunately, my life began to unravel and you know the very thing that I said that I would never be growing up in a dysfunctional family – I had become an alcoholic, a workaholic, and my marriage was on the rocks. And then Jesus Christ came into my wife and I’s lives and God took away all the pain and memories of Vietnam, the nightmares. And the funny thing was, several months later something began stirring in my heart about Vietnam and I said to my wife “You know I’d like to go back to Vietnam now as a Christian; not as a Marine, not as a warrior, but as a Christian.” Well, that was several months later – April 1975 – Vietnam fell, and so from ‘75 to ‘88 I would ask missionaries that were in Asia, parts of Asia, what was going on in Vietnam. And nothing was happening in Vietnam, it was closed off to the outside world.
Bob Peregallo: I had a lot of guilt.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peregallo.
Bob Peregallo: It was a false guilt, but it was guilt of what I did in Vietnam. Everybody told me how wrong it was, that I was wrong. And these horrible accusations, you know what they are, they said all those things. So, I went into church and I heard the message of forgiveness and I responded and it was the beginning of me getting my head back together and breaking free from the whole Vietnam experience, and becoming a normal human being again, which took some time. It wasn’t an easy transition. It took some time.
Kent C. Williamson: So when did you start thinking about going back to Vietnam?
BREAK: But first… Two quick items. We’re giving away the soundtrack to the film By War & By God, so if you like the music, go to By War And By God dot com, click on the Soundtrack item on the menu and download all 8 tracks of this great score. The music was composed by Will Musser and we want you to have it for free. So go download it. Next… I want to say “thank you” for listening. You are the reason we create this show and I want to ask you to please tell a friend about us. There’s probably at least one person in your circle of influence who would like to hear this podcast, so please tell them about it. And if you can, go to iTunes (or wherever you get your podcasts) and leave us a review. Your words will help others know that this show is worth listening to. Okay, so that was three things, not two things. All right, let’s get back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: So, when did you start thinking about going back to Vietnam?
Bob Peragallo: I wanted to be a missionary, so the first church I ever pioneered, the first thing we were going to do was send out missionaries and we sent a missionary couple to Honduras. This is back in the early ‘80s, about 1980, and the Sandinista war was going on in Central America. But I remember, like, I felt so fulfilled that I was doing something beyond just being “the church guy”. We were working in this orphanage and at night, I would… all of a sudden I would look up and over the other side of the mountain I’d see tracers, and I could hear gunships. And it just blew my mind, like ‘Wow, we’re this close to the war’. You know, we all heard about it and we were cautioned about traveling down the Pan-American highway, and here I am in 1980, and I’m looking at tracers going through the air, and it brought me right back to Vietnam, and in that process that’s where I first figured ‘You know, it would really be nice if we could do this in Vietnam.’ When I was in Vietnam I tried to imagine what it would be like if people weren’t trying to kill you. I just would always tell myself, “Man, I’d like to come back to this place sometime. This has got to be a beautiful place.” It’s just that it was ugly by war.
Kent C. Williamson: When you first thought of going back to Vietnam, what went through your head? This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: I think the first thing that went through my head was the fact of “Why in the hell am I even thinking about going back there?” That was the first thing I said, “What am I looking for? Why do I want to go back?”
Kent C. Williamson: So tell me about the first inklings of desire that you had to return to Vietnam. This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: Every now and then I would see something on TV with World War II vets, or Korean vets. They’d be interviewing them and so on, and they would talk about that they were going back to some kind of a reunion at a particular place in Europe or wherever it might have been, and I just started thinking about, you know, ‘I wonder how that would be for me if I did anything like that.’
Bob Peragallo: It was just like a tremendous magnet that wanted to pull me back to Vietnam. I couldn’t shake it, I couldn’t resist it.
Kent C. Williamson: Again, Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: My wife and family members and people that I knew, they had mixed feelings about going back to Vietnam, but I was just compelled. There was just something in me that was driving me from deep inside to return to that place, knowing that there was an uncertain outcome – how we would be treated, how it would work. It was just an uncontrollable impulse to return to the scene of the crime.
Phil Carney: To me, Vietnam personally felt unfinished.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: I never knew how to really articulate it. I never said it to anybody out loud, but it just always felt like there was something unresolved and unfinished. I never felt like there was an apology owed. I never felt like… I never regretted going. I never really felt guilty about being a Vietnam veteran, but there was just something in my own soul that felt unfinished about my Vietnam experience. I just always felt in my heart if I ever could go back to Vietnam it would be meaningful and important, and I didn’t know what that was. It just felt unfinished to me
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Don’t forget to subscribe so you won’t miss an episode and please tell a friend about us. You can learn more about By War & By God at our website… By War And By God dot com. A reminder to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe to save some money on your copy of the film By War & By God. Also if you have an Amazon Prime account you can watch the film for free.
You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email me your thoughts about the show or your own experiences. You can send them to Kent at By War And By God dot com.
The film will be at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma on Saturday, April 22nd where it will screen at the historic Roxy Theatre. By War & By God will also screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if you’re in either of those parts of the country, please go see it!
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the original interviews for the film.
Leslie Wood was the voice of the questions from the National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study in today’s episode. Special thanks to Greg Allen Morgoglione for his help and suggestions to make this show better. Thanks Greg! The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and don’t forget, for a limited time you can download the entire soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.
Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 06 – DEALING WITH YOUR BAGGAGE
PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Phil Carney, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Bob Peragallo, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
Findings from the National Vietnam Veterans’ Readjustment Study
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 05 — You Can’t Go Home Again
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
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SUMMARY: Several Vietnam veterans return from the war only to learn that you can’t go home again.
TEASER — Bob Peragallo: You left the battlefield and you were home within a matter of 3 or 4 days and there was no counseling, there was no debriefing, there was absolutely nothing.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: There’s one thing that every war has in common. Eventually, they all come to an end… eventually. In April of 1975, after twenty years of fighting, and over a decade of American involvement, that day came for the war in Vietnam. It happened when Saigon, the capital of South Vietnam, fell. As it all was coming to a close, the grounds of the U.S. Embassy were packed with people hoping to escape the country. For 24 hours helicopter after helicopter briefly landed on rooftops, they were loaded with those fortunate enough to get visas, and lifted again into the sky where they flew to the air craft carriers waiting in the South China Sea. Tamarind trees were cut down in the Embassy’s parking lot to make room for a landing zone for more helicopters. There is some powerful footage of the evacuation online. We’ll include links to some in our show notes. At 4:58 in the morning of April 30th, Graham Martin, the U.S. Ambassador to South Vietnam climbed aboard a helicopter known as Lady Ace 09 and evacuated the embassy. By 7:53 that morning the last of the Marines lifted off the ground leaving behind many South Vietnamese who weren’t fortunate enough to catch a flight out. At 11:30am tanks of the Peoples Army of Vietnam crushed the gates of the Presidential Palace in Saigon. A flag for the National Liberation Front was raised above the building and the Vietnam War was over. Or was it?
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. It’s a place where we can go deeper into the stories of the lives of these veterans than we’re able to in the film. Over this season were telling the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ll hear stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… but you’ll also hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we start, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is where you go to purchase the documentary By War & By God, so if you need a copy for yourself, your dad, a friend, a veteran you know, or your local library, please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save one-hundred-thirteen-thousand-eight-hundred-and-fifty Vietnamese Dong… or five U.S. bucks on the film. Oh, and 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. That’s a lot of Veterans. Why do they go back? For healing and reconciliation.
In today’s episode, You Can’t Go Home Again, we’ll learn that you can remove the man from the war, but that it’s much more difficult to remove the war from the man. The home you left behind to go fight the war is not the same when you return… and neither are you. Alright… here we go…
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about coming home from the war…
Chuck Ward: Coming back so quickly from Vietnam, so many had no time to decompress, no time to share. On Saturday you could leave Vietnam, and on Monday or Tuesday you could be ushered out of the Army or the Marines, and no one seemed to really care.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: It’s a difficult thing coming back from war, whether you did just a little bit or you were there for two or three tours. And when you come home it’s different, and you’re different. Many Vietnam vets, particularly the soldiers and Marines, didn’t have a good experience when they came back – usually to California… San Diego… San Francisco, usually. In the latter part of the war the military were telling Veterans they might want to not wear their uniform when they process out. It was just crazy.
Bob Peragallo: When I came back to the states I was on a Medevac flight and I was Medevaced to the Oakland Naval Hospital and I was an outpatient there.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: I was a walking casualty, is what I guess the term was. You left the battlefield and you were home within a matter of three or four days, and there was no counseling, there was no debriefing, there was absolutely nothing. All of a sudden, you’re back to being a civilian, everybody thinks the Vietnam War sucks and the transfer of that came across as you suck. When I got home, obviously my parents were very emotional. It was the first time I’d ever seen my father cry. They welcomed me, but they never really asked me any questions; they never spoke about anything; they never asked me what happened, what was it like. It was like ‘You’re home, and we’re real glad, but we don’t want to know anything.’
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about leaving Vietnam after the war…
Cal Dunham: We called it ‘Going back to the world’, is what we called it when we were leaving…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: So you go through this out processing and then you got on a plane. It was just almost deadly silence on the plane, and then the captain came on and said ‘Okay, we’re taxiing. We’re going to take off now’, and it was just dead silence, and then as soon as we lifted off the ground and we knew we were at an elevation where nothing could happen everybody just broke into cheers and grabbed the stewardesses and hugged them and everybody was just ecstatic that we were now headed home. It was a great feeling, it was a real euphoria because ‘Okay I made it! Now I’m on my way home’.
Pat Cameron: Well first of all, I was glad to get on the plane to go back…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: …and when I got off the plane there really wasn’t anybody there to greet us at all. And then I went straight from there to the Balboa Naval Hospital and that’s where I was going to spend the remainder of my duty time from serving over in Nam. Shortly after I checked in Balboa Naval Hospital I went home for a leave. I got about 2-1/2 or 3 weeks to take off after serving over there, and to be really honest with you I just… I didn’t talk about it much.
Kent C. Williamson: So what was coming home like? How, how were you received?
BREAK: But first… As a storyteller, I love telling stories; whether on film or in audio form like this podcast. But the telling of stories doesn’t work without an audience like you. So I want to say “thank you” for listening. You are the reason we create this show. As listeners of this show I want to ask you for two favors. First, will you please tell a friend about us? There’s probably at least one person in your circle of influence who would like to hear this podcast, so please tell them about it. I would appreciate it. Second, would you consider going to iTunes (or wherever you get your podcasts) to rate us and give us a review. Your review will help others know that this show is worth listening to. I can’t thank you enough for listening, but let me say it once more… thank you!
Kent C. Williamson: So what was coming home like? How, how were you received? This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: Coming home was absolutely awesome, you know. You finally had this sense, ‘I’m free’. I had a 30-day leave, so I went… When I got home – my dad was a principal in an elementary school – so I got a taxi cab that took me to my dad’s school where he was principal and I just walked in, and there he was. They didn’t know exactly when I would be home because I hadn’t called. They just knew that I should be home around a certain date. So, I saw my dad for the first time in a year and we hugged and then I took his vehicle and went up to another school where my mom was teaching. And those first days were just like a euphoria, you know, you were there and you had a sense of “I made it back”. It was joyous, it was a wonderful thing – well-received by my family and my closer friends that knew me. We just had a great time being able to be together again.
Kent C. Williamson: Did your friends understand what you had been through?
Cal Dunham: I don’t think so, not really. They were just glad I was home, that I was safe, but they really didn’t understand what I had just been through, nor was I sharing any of that. You really just didn’t talk about it much. I mean, especially in those first months and so on you would… maybe you would tell a light story of something that happened to you but, for me, I never really talked about it. They would say “Well, we’re glad you’re home”. You know, they were already in their lives and you had to kind of start over again. You had to kind of get settled in and figure out what you were going to do.
Kent C. Williamson: So, what kind of challenges did that present?
Cal Dunham: I still had some time left in the Army so I knew I had to go, I went over to… Well, I was on my way to Fort Hood, Texas. That was where my reassignment was. I was driving, when I was on my way to Texas, I got a call the day I left that my dad had just died suddenly of a heart attack… That just… in some way just pushed me over the edge in some way for quite some time… I was really struggling at that point because I had just seen so much of it, and to have my own dad just die… That was pretty tough.
Kent C. Williamson: So how did you process that?
Cal Dunham: In my mind I made up all kinds of stories for a while that he wasn’t really dead. You know, your mind can do strange things to you. But I just had to process it.
Chuck Ward: I had one experience that told me what things were like back in the States…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: When a carrier comes back to its place – in our case it was Alameda, which is San Francisco, California – all the enlisted men and the officers go up on the flight deck and they line the flight deck… They go all the way around the flight deck, and you’re in your dress uniform… whites in summer, blues if it’s winter. And as we were sailing under the Oakland Bay Bridge I looked up, and you could see people up on top of the bridge… lots of people… and you could tell they had signs – you couldn’t read them yet, but you knew they had signs. But as you got closer you begin to hear that these were not people that were welcoming you home. It was antiwar protesters, and then as you even got closer you could see some of the signs… huge signs, small signs, some of them said really terrible things… You know, you’ve heard, things like ‘baby killer’, that sort of thing. But the thing that happened… it was terrible… as our carrier went under the Oakland Bay Bridge soon things began to hit us and it turned out to be feces and urine, and they were dumping buckets of it on us. I mean, you talk about angry… Those people on the bridge that day were very fortunate that the sailors on that flight deck couldn’t get to them because it would have been awful. You know, how in the world do you treat people that way? It was disgusting.
Kent C. Williamson: So what was it like when you got back? This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: I still had a year and a half to do in the Marine Corps – over a year and a half – so I was stationed at the Concord Naval Weapons Station, which was a West Coast ammunition depot for the Vietnam War. I was assigned as a security guard. We had a lot going on because we had all the Berkeley demonstrators that were protesting the war ammunition depot. So, I went from one war against the Viet Cong into a war against war protesters. And these were not nice, loving, hippie people. These people were pretty vicious, and it was confrontations on every weekend when they would come down to protest.
Archival Footage — News Report: On October 15, 1965 at the Berkeley campus of the University of California the Vietnam Day Committee held a mass rally to protest the United States war against Viet Nam. In the evening 14,000 students and people from the community marched from the campus toward the Oakland Army base.
Cal Dunham: This is kind of a funny… well, not so funny story.
Kent Williamson: Again, Cal Dunham.
Cal Dunham: There was a guy sitting in front of me in a line of traffic, and he had long hair, and looked like what back then we called a hippie, and I made some kind of rude comment about him probably being one of those protesters that hates guys like me and so on. And Fran just looked at me and said “Cal, that guy up in that car ahead of us is my stepbrother”. And I said “You’re kidding me.” And she said “No, that’s my stepbrother”. And I said, ”Don’t you ever introduce me to him.” I was really rude. He hadn’t done anything to me but you really stereotype people, so you just kind of stayed away from people that you thought might be real negative towards you.
Kent C. Williamson: What did you do after dealing with the protests?
BREAK: But first… Did you serve in Vietnam? If so, I’d like to hear what it was like for you to return home. Or perhaps you had a family member who served and you’d like to ask them what it was like to come home. Please record it on your phone and email it to me, or if you prefer typing, go for it. Either way, send it to me at Kent at By War And By God dot com that’s Kent… K E N T at By War And By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might just put some of your stories into a future episode.
Okay, I want to interrupt things for a moment to point out the set dressing… do you hear that?… This is part of the soundtrack of the film By War & By God. It was composed by Will Musser and guess what? We’re giving it away. Will Musser has created music for several of my films, but he’s probably most known for his work on the God’s Not Dead films. Another one of his soundtracks hits theaters this weekend in a film called The Case For Christ. Anyway, I love his music, he’s a very talented artist and I want you to experience the soundtrack for free. So make a mental note to go to By War And By God dot com to download it.
Now back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: What did you do after dealing with the protests?
Bob Peragallo: I became the senior NCO of a burial detail, and we were doing three or four military funerals every day.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: This would’ve been 1968, which was the highest casualty rate of the Viet Nam war – the Tet offensive. I did that for six months, and you just try to imagine what that is like, folding the flag of this mother’s son and handing it to her. Let me tell you, it was just a gut wrenching experience, and the only way we could actually get through it after a while was we started drinking pretty heavy. All of us were emotional basket cases, cause we were some of the first returning vets from the Vietnamese War. My experience coming home while still in the military just soured me, and there was no way I was going to stay in the military. So, I took my discharge and just had a really messed up life for the next two or three years – just drinking, carousing, fighting, whatever… just an angry, angry person.
Kent C. Williamson: What did you do after you got out of the service?
Pat Cameron: My father and I… I used to play with race cars a lot – drag racing. And he gave me the funds to start building another race car in California…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: …and I dominated my time and most of my mental state to going back to racing cars. I don’t know if I just wanted to go fast, and… I didn’t fear death, I will tell you that. Death was something that I had seen so much of that I just decided if I didn’t get a calling then I wasn’t going to get no calling. So, I ended up driving race cars up to 250 miles an hour; everything from funny cars to IMSA racing where I ran all over the world. I traveled a lot, and I did that for two years and it was a joy after I got out of the service.
Chuck Ward: In my life, I really put my wife through a lot. There’s no question it led to the divorce in my first marriage.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward.
Chuck Ward: If I knew then what I know now perhaps that marriage could have been saved, but there wasn’t any chance really. So then, you take those issues from one relationship to another. You think you’ve dealt with it. I just kind of… just tried to forget my bad memories, and bad things that happened.
Kent C. Williamson: Chuck eventually remarried…
Chuck Ward: I wanted to have that special bond that men in the military have – particularly in war – in my marriage, which was unfair. I did things that were irrational because it was about Viet Nam and not about living in Murray, Kentucky. And I didn’t treat my wife very well, and we didn’t have the intimacy on the emotional level that we should have had. I just had this box… this fence around me. And she finally had enough, and she wanted out of the marriage, and that made me deal upfront with Vietnam. So, my wife and I separated. I even had to do a very humbling thing. I had a full-time job at a University and I had to get a part-time job so I could pay for the counseling to try to help myself and save my marriage. That was really humbling because I delivered newspapers on weekends, and sometimes I delivered those newspapers to people that I worked with at the University. It was embarrassing, and it was humbling. But I had to do it, or there wasn’t going to be a marriage anymore and… God’s grace, and compassion, and mercy, and Joette’s faith… we weathered the storm, and we got back together and we’ve never looked back.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: I’ll end today’s episode with a quote from the great American novelist John Steinbeck. In his book Travels With Charley he goes back to visit the town of his youth and upon reflection he says, “Tom Wolfe was right. You can’t go home again because home has ceased to exist except in the mothballs of memory.”
Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Don’t forget to subscribe so you won’t miss an episode. Learn more about By War & By God at our website… By War And By God dot com. The name for this week’s episode “You Can’t Go Home Again” was taken from Thomas Wolfe’s book by the same name and was suggested by Molly McGarity Fulton. Thank you Molly! I asked my Facebook friends for suggestions naming this episode and received a bunch of really great ideas. Thanks to all of you who voted and suggested titles.
A reminder to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save over one-hundred-and-thirteen-thousand Vietnamese Dong on your copy of the film By War & By God. Also if you have an Amazon Prime account you can watch the film for free. That’s right… for free.
Find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there search for By War & By God and like or follow us. Please email me your thoughts about the show or your own experiences. Send them to Kent at By War And By God dot com.
By the way, the film has a couple of upcoming festival appearances. It will be at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma on Saturday, April 22nd where it will screen at the historic Roxy Theatre. By War & By God will also screen on Friday, May 5th at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if you’re in either of those parts of the country, please go see it!
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me, Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer in the studio is Steve Carpenter, but this week I need to say thanks to three of the Veterans from the show, Pat Cameron, Cal Dunham, and Bob Peragallo who all acted as their own audio engineers as they recorded their end of the phone interviews for this week’s show. Thanks also to my brother Brad Williamson who helped record the Chuck Ward interview you heard in this episode back when we shot it for the film.
Special thanks to Greg Allen Morgoglione for his continued help with suggestions for sound effects, show notes, etc. Thanks Greg! The By War & By God soundtrack was composed by Will Musser and don’t forget, for a limited time you can download the entire soundtrack for free at By War And By God dot com.
The War Protest News Clip in today’s show originally was heard in the documentary film Hot Damn!
Thank you to the entire Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 05 – YOU CAN’T GO HOME AGAIN
PLAYERS: Pat Cameron, Cal Dunham, Bob Peragallo, Chuck Ward, and host Kent C. Williamson
LINKS:
Fall of Saigon 1975 – Sandy Gall Reporting from Saigon
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 04 — My Worst Day In Vietnam – Part 2
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
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SUMMARY: How would you describe you worst day in the war? Five Vietnam War Veterans describe their worst days during the war. Part 2 of 2.
TEASER — Phil Carney: I could tell that people were panicked about something and they were pointing back, and I walked deeper into the water. I was real tall, and I got to about chest deep in the water and I figured out what was going on. There were children in the river that were being swept away.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: War is not pretty. It is not fun. It is not a video game that you turn off when Mom calls you for dinner. It’s not a movie nor a series on Netflix. It’s awful. At least that’s my perspective. Of course, I’ve never fought in a war. I was born during the Vietnam war and like many from my generation I only remember glimpses of it on the television set around supper time as a kid. But even the best news report can’t really capture what war is. Last time on the show we heard three Vietnam veterans tell us about their worst days during the war. Today we’ll hear from a few more. By the way, we don’t produce this show to try and glorify war, but instead we hope to give a little glimpse of the reality of it. In this episode we’ll also get a visit from a Civil War general, that’s right, a Civil War general who lives on in the words he left us about the brutality of war.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This show is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. It’s a place where we can go deeper into the stories of the lives of these veterans than we’re able to in the film. Over this season you will hear the remarkable accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ll hear stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… but you’ll also hear some amazing stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam for the purpose of serving some of the poorest of the poor in that beautiful country.
But before we start, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is a simple web store with a few films to buy, including the documentary By War & By God, so if you have yet to see the film, or if you need a copy for a friend, a history buff, your school library, or a Vietnam veteran that you know, please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five glorious bucks on the film. Oh, remember… 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why do they take them back? For healing and reconciliation.
WARNING: Alright, a quick warning to listeners that there are some rather disturbing events described in today’s episode, so now would be a good time to skip out if you’d rather not hear this.
Okay, let’s go back in time over 150 years… William Tecumseh Sherman was a general of the Union Army who fought in the Civil War. Sherman was at the first battle of Bull Run. He served under General Grant at the battles of Shiloh and Vicksburg. Vicksburg, by the way, was a battle that two of my great-great grandfathers fought in… both fought for the South, against Sherman. Before Sherman died in 1891 he left us a number of quotes about the reality and harshness of war. The voice you are about to hear is not the real voice of Sherman, we’ve used an actor for this part of the show. Without further ado… William Tecumseh Sherman…
“I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.”
When you are good at war you get things named after you… the USS General Sherman.. a civil war gunboat, the Sherman Tank from World War II, and two different Fort Sherman’s, one in Idaho that closed in 1900 and one in Panama that began in 1912, which we gave over to Panama in 1999… all of these named after William Tecumseh Sherman who knew that war was hell.
Kent C. Williamson: What about your worst memories? Tell me about your worst day in Vietnam…
Walt Griffin: Well, I was sitting on perimeter watch at LZ Baldy…
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: LZ Baldy or Landing Zone Baldy (also known as Hill 63) was a base for the US Marines, US Army, and the Army of the Republic of Vietnam. It was about 25 miles South of Da Nang. This is Walt Griffin…
Walt Griffin: Well, I was sitting on perimeter watch at LZ Baldy. We had a village out about a click and a half, which would be about a mile. And all of a sudden all hell broke loose. Explosions… They were close enough that I could see people running back and forth and just a lot of gunfire. And we had a CAP Patrol out there. Well the next morning I found out that we lost two guys and the Vietcong, or NVA – I can’t remember which it was – but they went through that village and since there wasn’t many men there they shot and killed about 160 women and children. And right then and there I was just in shock what war was. I hadn’t experienced anything like that before or even after that. I never experienced anything like that again.
Kent C. Williamson: How do you process that? How do you even try to make sense out of it?
Walt Griffin: Well I think a lot of times you just put it out of your mind, you go on about your business, you don’t think about it, you do your job. You know, you just don’t think about it, but then every once in a while something will hit that and you just… To this day, even in my trips back… on my first trip I tried to find that village and I couldn’t. I found the base I was on, but nobody really knew… I think it was a temporary village and so I never did find that. I was wanting to talk to the people there and reconcile with those people.
Kent C. Williamson: What would you say was your worst day?
Pat Cameron: The worst day was when I had to go work the emergency room…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: We had some incoming helicopters coming in one of the nights and we had more body bags than we had people. That was a bad night. I think if I remember we had about 12 to 13 body bags, six patients, and half of those didn’t make it. That was a bad night. I didn’t cry a lot because I must have had a lot of anger. I still have visions of that, of the body bags. I even have visions of people moving in the body bags. I just hadn’t been around death that much. Death is tough on a young guy. It was tough on me. It’s still tough on me. They didn’t have no life, they didn’t get a chance to enjoy nothing. A lot of them were there because they didn’t want to be there, they got put there. Those were the bad days. The good days was when you patch somebody up and you know he’s gonna make it. Being a corpsman is not easy. Even though I was a specialist I still saw a lot of blood, you know, and before I became an eye surgeon I had to learn to be a basic corpsman. I had to learn how to do things and I still put those things to use when I worked in the emergency room. But those were bad memories, those were not good memories. They’re not memories that I want to dwell on. That’s why I know I’m blessed to be here. I guess I’m blessed for the fact that I did get exposed to it or maybe I never would have gone back to Vietnam.
Kent C. Williamson: We’ll learn more about what these Vets are doing in Vietnam today in a future episode.
Kent C. Williamson: What about your worst day?
Steve Scott: Well, I’m not going to go into too much detail but I had a very close friend… the day he died. Operation Arizona.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Operation Arizona took place in June of 1967 and included the resettlement of over 1600 refugees to a more safe location south of Da Nang.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Corporal Steve Scott.
Steve Scott: Operation Arizona. I don’t want to go into detail with that, but he was…
Kent C. Williamson: You lost your friend.
Steve Scott: I lost my best buddy.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your worst day in Vietnam…
BREAK: But first, if you served in Vietnam and would like to share the memory of your worst day, I would like to hear it. Or perhaps your Dad or Uncle or Aunt served and you’d like to ask them about their toughest day there. You can record it on your phone and email it to me, or if you prefer typing… I’d love to read it, too. Either way, send it to me at Kent at By War AND By God dot com that’s Kent… K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might put some of your stories into a future episode.
Now back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your worst day in Vietnam…
Phil Carney: My worst day in Vietnam, without question, was really out of context because it wasn’t a combat scenario.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: I was on Hill 55 detached to Second Battalion First Marines, and in 1970 a devastating typhoon hit Da Nang area, and it really shut down the war for almost 2 days. Nothing could fly. It was leveling and flooding everything. The entire city of Da Nang was practically going underwater and it just kind of shut the war down. And they pulled a lot of different units in to help rescue civilians in the city of Da Nang and I was part of that. So they loaded us up, just a lot of different mixed units, brought us in to the city of Da Nang, put us in big deuce and a half trucks and we were just going into different areas and rescuing civilians. Entire villages and so on were being swept away. It was just horrific. So it was very out of context, and the guys that I was with were on the outskirts of Da Nang out towards Marble Mountain, out in that area, and it was just going underwater. And we pulled into this one village. It was dark, it was at night, we had floodlights and so on on the trucks and just trying to gather up civilians that were just scattered everywhere. I got off the truck and I was about waist deep in water and was walking down towards the village just trying to help people that were coming up the hill. It was down near the banks of the Da Nang River and I could tell that people were panicked about something, and they were pointing back. And I walked deeper into the water-I was real tall-and I got to about chest deep in the water and I figured out what was going on. And what was going on is there were children in the river that were being swept away, and nobody could find them. But you could hear them screaming. You could tell they were children by the tone of their voice. And I just lost it, and I was trying to get to these kids, trying to find them, just kind of groping in the dark. Big pieces of debris, I can remember, were slamming into me and other guys were behind me trying to pull me back out because it was dangerous. And I was just losing it because I figured out that these kids were drowning and being swept in this river. And we got back in the trucks and I just couldn’t get over that. And then about an hour later it was daylight and we went back to that same area and waded down in there and found a bunch of these little kids, and they had been swept into the concertina wire that was all along the river. And they had just been, like in a blender, just churned up in this concertina wire. And it was obviously the same kids that we couldn’t find. And that was without a doubt the worst day. It just kind of came out of nowhere. It was really out of context. It wasn’t a combat situation, and I can sort of remember just pulling parts of those kids out of that wire, just trying to get them out of the wire, and just losing it. I never got over that. Worst day… It really kind of caught me off guard, but definitely the worst day.
Kent C. Williamson: What was your worst day like in Vietnam?
Chuck Ward: My worst day in Vietnam was a number of days…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: God’s mercy, I wasn’t in any ambushes or firefights like so many of our soldiers and Marines were. My worst day, actually I had several worst days, beginning before I went to Vietnam, and then in Vietnam. My worst day before I went to Vietnam, in fact it was probably the defining moment that I decided I’m joining, and I’m volunteering for Vietnam. It was kind of like the John Wayne attitude, and I’m going to get even. And what happened was, one of the four individuals that went with me down to the recruiting station to volunteer for service and then volunteer for Vietnam had been killed in Vietnam. And I was able to go to his funeral in the states at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery. And what happened was, there’s the cemetery scene, and there’s the casket, and there’s the mom and dad, and Taps are played and the flag is folded, and everybody starts leaving. It was a terribly cold day. It was wintertime, it was raining. And my friend Johnny Pondoff had been killed during the battle for Hué. And his mother got up and walked over to the casket and climbed up on the casket and embraced it like she was hugging her son. And that really impacted me. That was my worst day before I ever went to Vietnam. But that was a seminal moment where “I’m going, I’m leaving college and I’m going”. So that’s what I did. My worst day in Vietnam… Probably Lieutenant Commander Hall. I had done a briefing on a mission. It was to Laos – three of our planes went there. At the conclusion of the briefing the pilots man their planes. And you know you’re always joking around, and Commander. Hall had a new watch and so I said “Commander Hall, if you don’t come back can I have your watch?” And he said “Sure, Chuck, you can have my watch. I’ll see you later.” Well, he sustained battle damage over the target and should have gone to Da Nang and taken the arresting wire and made an emergency landing there, but he insisted on coming back to the ship. And he fought the airplane coming back because of the issues with hydraulics and so on. And when he came back, about… in the glide path, maybe a mile from the ship, he lost it, and he crashed, and he was killed. And there I was holding his watch. I wish I had never asked for it.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thank you for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you won’t miss an episode. Learn more about By War & By God at our website… By War And By God dot com. A reminder to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save those 5 glorious bucks on your copy of the film By War & By God. And if you have an Amazon Prime account you can watch the film for free.
Find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re on Facebook go ahead and search for By War & By God and like us. Email me your thoughts about the show at Kent at By War And By God dot com.
By the way, the film has a couple of upcoming festival appearances. It will be at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma on Saturday, April 22nd where it will screen at the historic Roxy Theatre. By War & By God will also screen in early May at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if you’re in either of those parts of the country, go see it!
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer for today’s show is Steve Carpenter. The By War & By God theme music was composed by Will Musser and by the way, for a limited time you can download for free the entire soundtrack of the film at our website.
The voice of William Tecumseh Sherman in today’s episode was performed by Greg Allen Morgoglione. Greg also helped us with lots of great ideas for the sound effects for this episode. Thanks, Greg!
Special thanks to the Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford. Thanks also to my brother Brad who helped record the interviews you heard in this episode back when we shot them for the film.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 04 – My Worst Day In Vietnam – Part 2
PLAYERS: Walt Griffin, Pat Cameron, Steve Scott, Phil Carney, Chuck Ward
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe: Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 03 — My Worst Day In Vietnam – Part 1
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SUMMARY: How would you describe your worst day in the war? Three Vietnam War Veterans describe their worst days during Vietnam. (Part 1 of 2)
TEASER — Bob Peragallo: General Giap had promised Ho Chi Minh that if the Marines ever crossed the Thu Bon River he would wipe them out, and there was a Vietnamese term for that, and the English translation is that they would be “walking dead men”.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: In previous episodes we’ve heard how these veterans first learned about a place called Vietnam. We heard about their first days in-country and some of their first patrols. We’ve also learned about their best days during the war, but today (and next week) we’re going to dive into some of the bad memories from their experiences in Vietnam.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. As you may know, this podcast is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. What awards you might ask… well, we were nominated for an Emmy in our region, we won Best of Show, Best Editing, Best Direction, and the Human Spirit Awards at the Docs Without Borders Film Festival. We’ve also won Awards of Merit at both The Indiefest and the Impact Docs Awards and most recently we’ve been nominated for Most Inspirational Documentary and Best Director at ICFF, the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if you have yet to see the film, I encourage you to check it out. This podcast is a place where we can go deeper into the stories of these veterans. Over this season you will hear the amazing accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ll hear stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy (like in today’s episode)… but down the road you’ll also hear stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam to serve some of the poorest of the poor of that beautiful land.
But war is not pretty. It is not fun. To ignore the stories of these veterans experiences would be to gloss over the tragedy that war really is. In this episode My Worst Day in Vietnam we’ll hear about some of those bad, dark days… so stay with us…
But before we start, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is a simple web store with a few films to buy, including the documentary By War & By God, so if you haven’t seen the film, or if you need to pick up a copy for a friend, a history buff, a Vietnam veteran that you know, please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five glorious bucks on the film. Oh, and don’t forget… 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why? For healing and reconciliation. Alright, let’s get on with today’s episode…
WARNING: Actually, before we jump in I want to warn listeners that there are some rather disturbing events described in this week’s show, so now would be a good time to skip to another episode if you’re sensitive to this type of thing. Okay, here we go…
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your worst day in Vietnam…
Bob Peragallo: Well my worst day was May 12, 1966.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: Our company was pretty much overrun. We were in a area near the Thu Bồn River which was south of Da Nang. The Thu Bồn River ran from the South China Sea, a little village called Hoi An up all the way into almost up to the Laotian border. And ninth marines again was the first marine unit that was in Vietnam legally, we were the first marines that were sent there. And we were the most advanced unit in that particular area of I Corps.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: The I Corps was one of four corps of the Army of the Republic of Vietnam. These were the South Vietnamese soldiers the Americans fought alongside against the North Vietnamese Army or NVA and their allies, the Viet Cong.
Bob Peragallo: …the most advanced unit in that particular area of I Corps. And General Giap had promised Ho Chi Minh that if the marines ever crossed the Thu Bồn River he would wipe them out. And there was a Vietnamese term for that. That was, an English translation is that they would be “walking dead men”. And on May 12th, we liberated the village of Dai Loc and then headed to the Thu Bồn River. And as we approached the Thu Bồn River. We set up that night, we had been radically attacked during the day and we suffered some casualties. Every morning marine company sends out a security patrol to run a security check around our parameter. And that patrol inadvertently sprung an ambush that the R-20 Doc Lap VC Battalion had set for our entire company. That was a squad that I was in, but a week before they had transferred me from that squad to another squad – second squad. And so all of my buddies were in that squad and we lost contact with them. And they took the brunt of the ambush and were pretty much annihilated; only two survived from that original squad. And there were about five hundred VC that had attacked this fourteen man patrol.
Kent C. Williamson: VC stands for Viet Cong. Also called the National Liberation Front, the Viet Cong were strong allies of the NVA, the North Vietnamese Army, and a strong force in South Vietnam.
Bob Peragallo: … were about five hundred VC that had attacked this fourteen man patrol. And I was the reaction force to get to that squad and relieve them, and so we ultimately were pinned down – we never did get to them. And it was just a horrible battle that lasted three days. It became a battle that became an operation it was called The Lost Patrol. The 9th marines at this day have a moniker that their battalion is called The Walking Dead, which was that term that Ho Chi Minh used to define them – what would happen to them if we crossed the Thu Bồn River. We killed about a hundred and seventy five VC that day according to the news reports. However accurate it is I don’t know, but I know that we did a lot of damage, but we also suffered a lot of damage. We had fourteen marines killed just from our platoon Alpha Company. And Bravo company responded to our aid, and they suffered numerous casualties. Some estimates were there were between thirty and thirty five marines killed that day. And doesn’t really account for the wounded. And those were bad days ’cause we, we had a squad that was overrun. And they were not nice in that process, what they did to those who were wounded. So it was a bad day, a bad day all around and, yeah, something that I’ll never forget.
Kent C. Williamson: If you’d like to see a picture of the men from the “Lost Patrol” and hear Bob Peragallo talk more about them and their fate, check out the bonus material for the film By War & By God. You can find it on the DVD or on Vimeo On Demand.
Kent C. Williamson: What about your worst day?
Roger Helle: Probably my first worst day in Vietnam was after we had come ashore and were providing security at the airfield at Phu Bai…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: …they got us up about 2 in the morning, one morning and said we were going on an operation. And we were heli-lifted into an open area, and we dug in until dawn came. And at dawn they said. we’re looking to make contact with an unknown size enemy force that had overrun a South Vietnamese army unit that night. And that afternoon, my company of 219 marines walked into a 650 man Viet Cong ambush, and in one short 45 minute fire fight that company of marines was reduced to 78 men that had not been killed or wounded. My best friend, that I had gone through training with was killed standing next to me. My platoon sergeant, a Korean War veteran who had kind of taken us under his wing was killed standing on the other side of me. And that was probably my first worst day in Vietnam. The reality check is that, as an 18 year old marine I was not bulletproof.
Kent C. Williamson: So what about your second worst day? If that’s your first worst day, what’s the next? Where does it go bad from there? But first…
BREAK: Were you in Vietnam? What was your worst day in like? We would love to hear your story? Or perhaps you have a family member who served and you’d like to ask them that question. Record it for us, we’d love to hear it in your (or their) own words, or if you prefer typing… we’d love to read it, too. Either way, send it to me at Kent at By War AND By God dot com that’s Kent… K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might even put some of them together into a future episode.
Now back to the show…
Kent C. Williamson: So what about your second worst day? If that’s your first worst day, what’s the next? Where does it go bad from there?
Kent C. Williamson: Roger Helle continues…
Roger Helle: Probably my last worst day was – the day, on my third tour, July 1970 when I was, had a grenade go off at my feet and was critically wounded and medevaced to the 95th Evac hospital at Saigon with multiple wounds, internal wounds, burns, bullet wounds and probably didn’t think that I was going to survive that day.
Kent C. Williamson: Let’s back up a little bit right before there. What led up to that? Tell us what you were doing. What’s happening before that hand grenade shows up?
Roger Helle: I was a platoon leader, I had several squads of Marines and several platoons of what we call Vietnamese Militia…
DROP IN — The South Vietnamese had two national guard type local military units; Regional Forces (or RF’s) and Popular Forces (PF’s). The Popular Forces were organized to defend villages and hamlets from the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army, typically with outdated American weapons from as far back as World War II. Meanwhile, the Regional Forces performed a similar role on a District level, but with bit more weapon support. The RF’s & PF’s became known as the “Ruff-Puffs” based on their combined initials and many Ruff-Puff units became known for their courage and bravery.
Roger Helle: …what we call Vietnamese Militia, we were living in the villages, taking Guerrilla warfare into the enemies backyard. And we were on a search and destroy mission to destroy a VC basecamp that we had hit several days before. And we were going back out to blow up the bunkers and destroy the equipment that we couldn’t carry away the first time. And I was walking point when a grenade was thrown and hit me in the leg, bounced off my leg and landed at my feet. And before I could do anything, that grenade went off and just lifted me off the ground, ripped me apart from head to toe. I stood up in shock, was shot twice, knocked to the ground again, and run through the stomach by a North Vietnamese soldier with his bayonet while I was laying on the ground. And that moment, I knew I was going to die in that field.
Kent C. Williamson: What happened next?
Roger Helle: A marine helicopter, a supply helicopter heard the distress call. There were no medevac choppers available, so they diverted from where they were going, landed in a dry rice paddy – and my guys carried me on a stretcher into the back of this supply helicopter. And I was rushed to the hospital in Da Nang. Took me into the triage and – sights, smells that you’ll never forget; charred skin, blood, I was not the only casualty there that day. And I remember the doctor putting the mask on my face, telling me he was going to take me down to surgery. Six days later, in and out of consciousness, I woke up in intensive care. And so, as I was laying in my hospital bed and I saw my twin brother walk past my bed – and went up to a doctor and asked if he could see his brother. And I heard the doctor tell my twin brother that I was going to die, that they had done everything that they could. And my brother asked if he could see me, ‘cause he did not recognize me. So I could see out of the corner of my eye as I lay in that bed, the doctor and a nurse lead him to my bed and just stop. And my brother just stood there with kind of a stunned look on his face, because I was ripped apart from head to toe. I had all of these open wounds, my face was distorted. They said my head was probably the size of a basketball, all black and blue. And he stood there for a moment with a blank look – and literally I could see when the look of recognition came across my brother’s face. He recognized that it was actually me laying there. And he stood there for a moment, and he began to weep. And he started to take a step toward my bed and his legs just buckled underneath him, and he fell against the end of my bed and was just sobbing. And as I was laying on that bed I was three months from my 23 birthday. This was my third tour and my third time getting wounded and, laying in that hospital bed – I didn’t want to die. I was, that fear gripped my heart greater than anything I had experienced in three tours of combat. And I’m not sure why, but I just remember I closed my eyes and I said, “God, if there really is a God, if you let me live, I’ll do anything you want,” and I went to sleep.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about… tell me about your worst day in Vietnam.
Cal Dunham: My worst day in Vietnam was in January of ’69 while we were moving through a bunker complex.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Cal Dunham…
Cal Dunham: All hell broke loose, and I found myself withering in pain. The tree that I had dodged behind, was hit with a rocket propelled grenade, an RPG.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Rocket Propelled Grenades were developed by the Soviet Union toward the end of World War II and were distributed widely to Soviet allies like North Vietnam. They were designed to be easily shoulder fired as the weapon and the grenade weighed just under 10 pounds. With an accurate range up to 500 feet these grenades traveled about 275 feet per second. Upon impact they could penetrate armor over 7 inches thick.
Cal Dunham: …was hit with a rocket propelled grenade, an RPG. That’s when I first realized, because it was relatively new in my arrival to Vietnam within about the first month or so – that this was real, that it was no game. And from that point on, being medevaced – everything that you would go through in that kind of environment was pretty traumatic.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell us about it. What was the whole experience like?
Cal Dunham: Well, we were engaged in fighting, and then this explosion, right where I was, it knocked me unconscious. And when I woke up all I remember was just hollering for the medics. A medic came, dragged me back into a little bit of a more secure safe area, and then they begin to– When it was all said and done, and the firing had ceased, then they brought in the medevac helicopters. And all of us that had been wounded were put on helicopters and sent back, flown back to a secure site where then they began to clean up the wounds, and stitch up the tears and so on. Didn’t really begin to feel a sense of shock until I finally was out of the environment, and then I realized what I had just been through.
Kent C. Williamson: What were your injuries?
Cal Dunham: I had shrapnel through my left thigh, into my right shoulder. My hands and face looked like I’d ran through a briar patch. I was all scratched up, and pock marks and little bleed areas that all they could do was clean them up. And then a bit of a concussion because of where the grenade went off.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell us about some of your friends…
Cal Dunham: Friends. You know we’d all say well, we’re not going to make friends because we don’t want to be hurt by perhaps the loss of friends. But you do, you develop friendships. And there were people in my own squad, that we just lived together. Along the way, we would lose friends, but there was a camaraderie between all of us – that we really did watch out and care for each other. Now they say “I’ve got your back.” Well there was a real sense of that – that you were looking out for yourself, but you were also looking out for those people that were in your squad, that you had developed a relationship with. And you just knew you were all in this together, and we all wanted to get out together.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thanks for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Next week… Part 2 of My Worst Day In Vietnam. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you won’t miss an episode. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save 5 glorious bucks on your copy of the film By War & By God. You can watch the film for free if you have an Amazon Prime account. Yes you heard that right… for free… Free.
You can find me on Facebook or Twitter. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re on Facebook go ahead and search for By War & By God and like us. Email me your thoughts about the show at Kent at By War And By God dot com.
By the way, the film has a couple of upcoming festival appearances. It will be at the Bare Bones International Film & Music Festival in Muskogee, Oklahoma on Saturday, April 22nd where it will screen at the historic Roxy Theatre. I’ve been to that theatre before and it’s a pretty cool venue. By War & By God will also screen in early May at the International Christian Film Festival in Orlando. So if you’re in either of those parts of the country, go see it!
Special thanks to the 720th Military Police Battalion for their information about the Ruff-Puff’s. Learn more about them at 720 MP Reunion dot org.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer for today’s show is Steve Carpenter. The By War & By God theme music was composed by Will Musser and by the way, for a limited time you can download for free the entire soundtrack at our website. Will Musser is a fantastic composer who’s known for his work on films like Gods Not Dead 1 & 2, The Case For Christ which hits theaters soon as well as another film of mine called Rebellion of Thought. Anyway, get his music free on our website.
Special thanks to the Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford. Thanks also to my brother Brad who helped record the interviews you heard in this episode back when we shot them for the film. Special thanks also to Liz Orazi for the great show notes she made for last week’s episode and her input on sound effects and to Greg Allen Morgoglione as well for his listening ears and soundscape input for today’s show.
This podcast is a production of Paladin Pictures. Yep, Paladin is a film production company that sees the value in audio podcasts. Why? Because like is the case with By War & By God… the podcast can go deeper into the story than the film ever can. Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us and our films at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & By God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 03 – My Worst Day In Vietnam – Part 1
PLAYERS: Bob Peragallo, Roger Helle, Cal Dunham, and your host Kent C. Williamson
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe – Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
By War & By God Soundtrack – Download the original soundtrack to the film for free!
Episode 02 — My Best Day In Vietnam
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
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SUMMARY: How would you describe your best day of the war? Vietnam veterans reflect on their best days in Vietnam.
TEASER — Walt Griffin: The best time was just being with the guys. And, ya know, I think I almost miss those times, because there’s nothing like being with somebody that you don’t know whether you’re going to be with the next day, or the next week or whatever.
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: Asking Vietnam Veterans what their best day in Vietnam was like is almost like asking someone about their favorite day in Hell. Perhaps the horrific memories are so overwhelming that it’s difficult to recall the bright spots. With losing friends and being immersed in a culture of war, you can imagine that any fun and laughter gets washed away by the gravity of it all. But as you’ll hear in today’s episode, there were some good memories to go along with the bad. In fact, most everyone we talked to for this episode was able to recall some good memory in the midst of it all.
Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This podcast is a companion series to the award winning documentary film By War & By God. This show is a place where we can go deeper into the stories of these brave souls than the film allows. Over this season, we will hear the amazing accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ll hear stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine gunners and crewman back to Vietnam to serve some of the poorest of the poor of that beautiful land.
In this episode, My Best Day in Vietnam, they’ll tell us exactly that. In the midst of war & bloodshed there were some bright spots, some good memories. But before we hear about these best days, I need to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is a simple web store with a few films to buy, including the documentary By War & By God. So if you haven’t yet seen the film, or if you need to pick up a copy for a friend, an uncle, a Vietnam veteran that you know, please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five glorious bucks on the film. Oh, and remember… 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the nonprofit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400, that’s 1400, Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam. Why? For healing and reconciliation. Alright, let’s get on with today’s episode…
Kent C. Williamson: What was your best day in Vietnam?
Bob Peragallo: Wow. I don’t think I had, I, I, I couldn’t give you a best day. That’s a difficult question to answer.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo.
Bob Peragallo: I guess… my mother sent me a rum cake once. And we were sitting up on, on a hill it was called Hill Twenty Two. And it was miserable, it was hot, we had suffered a lot of WIA and KIA…
DROP IN —Kent C. Williamson: WIA and KIA stand for Wounded In Action and Killed in Action. KIA also implies that the person was killed on the battlefield whereas DOW, or Died of Wounds, refers to someone who survived long enough to reach a medical facility but then succumbed to their injuries. Members of the United States Military who are WIA, KIA, and DOW would typically be awarded the Purple Heart for their sacrifice. In 2009, National Geographic magazine estimated that during the Vietnam war, nearly 352,000 Americans received the Purple Heart.
Bob Peragallo: We had suffered a lot of WIA and KIA, and it was just a miserable situation. It was after a major operation. And they finally got mail to us, and I opened up my package and it was a rum cake from my mother. And it was in a big can, and I remember opening up that can, and the rum just poured out. It was more than I could handle, cause I, I was pretty young and not used to really being a serious drinker. So at that time I was a machine gunner and my gun team and I, we devoured that rum cake and we were the happiest three guys on that hill. So if you say about… I was about as I could get was that day.
Cal Dunham: My best day in Vietnam was probably my last day in Vietnam, when I knew I was going, what we referred to as, “back to the world.”
Kent C. Williamson: Cal Dunham tells about his experience.
Cal Dunham: Because I was in an Infantry unit out in the jungles, I didn’t have what I would call “good days.”
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your best day in Vietnam.
Steve Scott: China Beach R & R
DROP IN —Kent C. Williamson: China Beach was the in country R&R spot for the marines. R&R is military speak for rest and recuperation. Some called it rest and relaxation, rest and recreation, or even just “rock and roll”. Soldiers who served in hostile fire or imminent danger areas could be eligible for R&R leave which typically lasted 3 to 7 days and gave soldiers a break from combat. In earlier wars, some would use the slang term B&B which stood for Booze & Broads. By the time of the Vietnam War, another slang term had crept into the vernacular… I & I for intercourse & intoxication.
This is Corporal Steve Scott…
Steve Scott: My Best day in Vietnam…
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about the R&R if that was the best.
Steve Scott: No, it wasn’t the best. I can’t particularly pick out a moment that I would say was a highlight, was a wonderful thing. As you know, your tour over there is a lot of boredom, a lot of craziness. And then, you know, periods of intense combat and terror. I think I always felt lucky being a small guy and never being an athlete or anything, of being a small guy keeping up with the big dogs. So I always felt that that kind of gave me a persona, if you will. So I can’t pick out a moment. I think, if anything, I spent a short time with a CAP unit, Combined Action Platoon… twelve marines, living in the village… and I got contact with some of the Vietnamese people. With the regular rifle company you just sweep and clear, search and destroy. But with the CAP unit, I got a feeling for the people. So I can say that was one of the things that I’ve carried on over the years, some of my motivation for what I do now.
DROP IN —Kent C. Williamson: We’ll learn more about what Steve Scott and these other Veterans are doing now in a future episode.
Kent C. Williamson: What’s your best memory of your time in Vietnam as a soldier?
Walt Griffin: The best memory was making all these friendships and camaraderie.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Walt Griffin…
Walt Griffin: Back in the rear we goofed around and had a good time. And then when we got down to business, we got serious and went out on our patrols or perimeter watch or whatever we did. The best time was just being with the guys. And, ya know, I think I almost miss those times, because there’s nothing like being with somebody that you don’t know whether you’re going to be with the next day, or the next week or whatever. And you do get close relationships, but you don’t get as close as they did early in the war. Because I went over as a replacement, so I was the new guy. And that was hard… people sort of shunned you at first because new guys were supposedly bad luck out in the field. So, but after, you get into the groove and you’re with good guys that came over within a month of you, you have to be friends with them. And then that was really good, so it was really good.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your best day in country when you were serving in Vietnam…
Phil Carney: Oh, my best day in country, and it was just 1 day, because it turned out not to be as good as I thought it was going to be.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: I was reassigned. I think I had about 4 months left in my tour, so it was really late in my tour. Only had about 4 months left, so I was a short timer. And I was reassigned. Me and my best friend were reassigned to a different unit. And we were reassigned to first MPs, First MP Battalion, and we were reassigned to an MP unit.
DROP IN —Kent C. Williamson: MP stands for Military Police. The Marine Corps Military Police help keep order and law. They maintain area security posts, perform intelligence operations, act as resettlement and interment officers, as well as support for mobility operations.
Phil Carney: And we were reassigned to an MP unit. And so we thought “Man, what a gravy job, this is gonna to be so good. We get to be in an MP unit now.” And we got to drive around in Jeeps, in Da Nang, and police the area. And we had all this power, it was a real power trip, but it turned out to be horrible. Because it was really a dangerous job, and we didn’t know it. But that was my best day, I can remember just thinking “Man, we finally got a break you know? They’ve assigned us to this really great MP unit, this is going to be so easy and so sweet.” And it wasn’t, but that was a good day man, I remember we were celebrating and just feeling like “Man, we’ve been handed such a nice easy assignment.” It was my best day.
BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: What was your best day in Vietnam like? We would love to hear your story? Or maybe you have a family member who served and you’d like to ask them that question. Record it for us, we’d love to hear it, or if you prefer typing… we’d love to read it, too. Either way, send it to me at Kent at By War AND By God dot com that’s Kent… KENT at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences and we might even put some of them into a future episode.
Now back to the show…
Pat Cameron: My best day in ‘Nam, during the war…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: …would be probably in the evening when I could have a few drinks. I mean I, you could still… you could drink a little bit of the frustration or the, what was going on, through cocktails. And they had a nice bar area for the guys that were there in the night. So I think it, plus I got a chance to talk to a lot of people. Got a chance to talk to some of the other corpsmen, talk to some of the other Marines. So I think the evening time was the best and usually I, it was when we were getting ready to leave. When we had finished up, we didn’t have anything else pending. I think we felt good about what we did. And we were heading back to Japan, which was pretty much vacation from what we just left. That was probably the best time while I was there.
Roger Helle: My best day in Vietnam probably had to be the day that, in my second tour, I did two tours back to back.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: We had been overrun the night before on a little fire base on the DMZ, and when dawn came after the enemy withdrew and we were gathering our wounded and dead… I heard somebody call my name. And told me to get on a helicopter, and 48 hours later I was back in my living room back home in America. And that probably had to be the best day because I didn’t know that that day would ever come.
Chuck Ward: My best day in Vietnam, I think, like a lot of Veterans, they might say it was the day you left.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: For me, I was on an aircraft carrier most of the time, so I actually left Vietnam 3 times. The first time I left Vietnam on an aircraft carrier going back to the States. The second time I left Vietnam, I was on a carrier, and I went back to the States. But the 3rd time, I was on the carrier and then I was sent to the airbase there at Da Nang. So when I left Vietnam the 3rd time, two things happened. Aircraft carriers have an escalator in them, where the air crews and the pilots go up to the flight deck to man their aircraft. No one’s allowed to go on that escalator unless you’re an officer or an aircrew of some kind. And you know, there’s a tradition in the navy where you hear the bells being rung on a ship. Well there’s a lot of reasons for doing that. Well one of them is when an admiral’s on board the ship, or the captain is aboard the ship, and he leaves it, they ring the bell. And it’s a big deal. Well that day when I left, it was very emotional for me. I’d been with the same unit for 3 tours. I felt in a way that I was abandoning them. I was leaving, how were they gonna win the war without me? All the new guys were so young, so inexperienced. And so, it was a very emotional day in the ready room. A lot of hugs, and I remember I cried a lot. I just couldn’t believe it, I was so surprised about that. But, we said goodbye and I went to leave, and one of the officers said, “Walk with me.” And they took me to the escalator. And they had me ride the escalator to the flight deck. And when I got off the flight deck and walked out to the aircraft, the bolsters mate blew his whistle. There was one bell, and the loudspeaker, I guess, the bolsens mate up there on the bridge said, “Petty Officer Ward departing.” I still get very emotional about that. So, I was really a mess in the aircraft. Then we launched and went to Da Nang. And then, several months later, I left Da Nang and it was a great feeling to leave Vietnam. And I said, like most Vets I would imagine, “I will never come back to this place.” When that plane took off and the wheels were off that runway, I said, “I’ll never come back to this place.” I learned never say never to the Lord.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thanks for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Next week it gets a little tougher when we’ll hear about their worst days in Vietnam. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you won’t miss an episode. You can learn more about By War & By God at By War And By God dot com. Don’t forget to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save those 5 glorious bucks on your copy of the film. If you have an Amazon Prime account you can watch the film right now for FREE. Yes, you heard that right… for free… of course if you’re driving, I recommend that you wait until you get home.
You can find me on Facebook. Look for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re facebooking go ahead and search for By War & By God and like us. If you like email, please send your comments to Kent@ByWarAndByGod.com.
Special thanks to USMilitary dot com for their insight into the role of the Marine Corps Military Police Officer.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me, Kent C. Williamson, with Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer for today’s show is Steve Carpenter. The By War & By God theme music was composed by Will Musser.
Special thanks to the Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford. Thanks also to my brother Brad who helped make By War & By God and who helped record the interviews you heard in this episode.
Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P A L A D I N Pictures dot com.
By War & by God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
And of course, thank you to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 02: My Best Day In Vietnam
PLAYERS: Bob Peragallo, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Steve Scott, Walt Griffin, Phil Carney, Pat Cameron, Chuck Ward, and your host Kent C. Williamson
LINKS:
Big Heaven Cafe: Save $5 on the DVD of By War & By God with the coupon code “Podcast”
The Walking Dead: See a bonus clip from the DVD where Bob Peragallo talks about the “Lost Patrol”
Episode 01 — Hearing And Going
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SUMMARY: Vietnam veterans reflect on first hearing about a place called Vietnam and then describe their first days in the war.
TEASER — Roger Helle: He started screaming, and he said, “Some of you are going to end up in a rice paddy in Vietnam.” And as a senior in high school I thought, “Where’s Vietnam, and why would I want to be in a rice paddy?”
INTRO — Kent C. Williamson: Prior to the war, Vietnam was a country that many Americans didn’t need to think much about. And after the war it became a country that many Americans wanted to forget. But for those who served and fought in Vietnam the war was a life altering event. Welcome to the By War & By God Podcast, I’m your host Kent Williamson. This podcast is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. This show is a place where we can go deeper into the stories than the film allows. Over this season you will hear the amazing accounts of people who’s lives were forever changed by the Vietnam war. You’ll hear stories of heroism, and stories of tragedy… stories of reconciliation, and you’ll learn about a magnetic force that tugged and pulled and eventually drew these soldiers, medics, machine-gunners and crewman back to Vietnam to serve some of the poorest of the poor of that beautiful land.
In this episode Hearing & Going they’ll tell of first learning about a country called Vietnam as well as about their very first day on the ground in-country. But before we start allow me to tell you about Big Heaven Cafe. Big Heaven Cafe is a simple web store with a handful of films to buy, including the documentary By War & By God, so if you haven’t seen the film, or if you need to pick up a copy for a friend, an uncle, or a veteran that you know, please click your way to Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com and use the coupon code “podcast” to save five glorious bucks on the film. Oh, and by the way… 20% of all sales of By War & By God from Big Heaven Cafe go to Vets With A Mission, the non-profit that since 1989 has taken nearly 1400 Vietnam Veterans back to Vietnam for healing and reconciliation. Alright, let’s get on with it.
Kent C. Williamson: When did you first learn about Vietnam?
Roger Helle: When I was a senior in high school I went to an inner city school…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Roger Helle…
Roger Helle: …and I remember one of the teachers one day – and I think in social studies. These unruly kids in this class, he would start screaming, and he said, “Some of you are going to end up in a rice paddy in Vietnam.” And as a senior in high school I thought, “Where’s Vietnam, and why would I want to be in a rice paddy?” But you know my brother and I joined the Marine Corps actually before we graduated. So we went right from high school graduation to Marine Corps boot camp. And we got the boot camp ’65. The Marine Corps had just been involved for a few months in Vietnam, but it was pretty evident to us in basic training that we were going to go. And just in case we were not picked, I think my brother and I both volunteered to go Vietnam while we were in infantry training right after boot camp.
Phil Carney: My first recollection is just watching the news as a kid, in the early and mid-sixties, as I would have probably been in junior high…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Phil Carney…
Phil Carney: …It wasn’t a real big topic as far as school or anything at that time. So I think my first recollection was just watching it on some of the early news programs.
News Clip: These marines on patrol made contact with the elusive enemy when the Viet Cong struck in a variation of his favorite tactic; a surprise attack from the shadows. (see link above)
Bob Peragallo: I was stationed at a boot camp in Quantico Virginia in schools demonstration troops…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Bob Peragallo…
Bob Peragallo: …and one day there was a broadcast on the television about Vietnam, and that marines had landed there. And I had no idea that there was such a place called Vietnam, but I knew that marines had landed.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about your first memory of hearing about a war in Vietnam…
Steve Scott: I grew up reading a lot of Kipling and wanting some adventure.
Kent C. Williamson: This is Steve Scott…
Steve Scott: I think the first time I heard about Vietnam was in boot camp in the Marine Corps. I joined the Marine Corps before I was any way familiar with geopolitics or anything that was going on at the time, but the drill instructors inured us to the fact that, “We’re all gonna go to Vietnam.” All through high school I wanted to join the Navy. And I wanted to sign in right after high school. I was seventeen, my mother wouldn’t sign, I was really friends with the recruiter in town. That was back in the old days where all the recruiters were in the post office, in the basement, lined up with their desks. And finally I went to college for a year and half, played bridge, chased girls, quit college, went to California, grooved out. Was just about to be drafted, went back and said, “I’m gonna join up before they draft me.” So I went back to the post office, and the Navy recruiter had left. And he was squared-away guy, really liked him, but he was replaced by this old chief who weighed three hundred pounds and chain smoked Lucky Strikes. His desk was a mess he – really, I just walked over there and down at the end, the other end of the post office, was this gentleman in dress blues. His desk was spit-shined and on it was one piece of paper and one pencil. He said, “Son, come on over here. If you sign up with me, I’m gonna send you to Paris Island.” All I heard was “Paris”. He said, “When you get there, there’s gonna be a swimming pool, a golf course, and a battalion of women marines.” Now, he didn’t lie, but he sort of dodged around the truth. I was so naive that when I had to go – and I was living in New Jersey. I had to go to White Hall Station in New York for my physical to sign up and to leave that I bought a suit ’cause I figured if I looked better when I got to boot camp, they were gonna treat me better. Big mistake, big mistake. So that’s how I joined the marine corp. But I did, I was young. I didn’t have any direction, I wanted some adventure, I wanted to see the world. And the marine corps provides you with a modicum of adventure.
Kent C. Williamson: When did you first learn about a place called Vietnam?
Pat Cameron: Well that goes way back…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Pat Cameron…
Pat Cameron: I’m 65 now and I was just getting out of high school when I was… 1967. The war was going on but I didn’t really pay a lot of attention to it at the time. When I decided I wasn’t going to stay in college, and knew that my draft number was going to be kind of high, I decided I was going to pick out the service branch. And that’s when I really, kind of really – knew a little bit more about the war. I really wasn’t too much into the political arena. I just wasn’t involved in that. But I did know that when I decided that I was going to join the Navy, I had to decide what I wanted to do, and that’s when I decided to get into the medical field.
Kent C. Williamson: Do you remember when you first learned about a country called Vietnam?
Walt Griffin: I didn’t really know much about it until about around ’64 and the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution…
Kent C. Williamson: This is Walt Griffin…
Walt Griffin: …and I watched the famous Johnson speech.
Archival Footage — President Lyndon B. Johnson: My fellow Americans: As President and Commander in Chief, it is my duty to the American people to report that renewed hostile actions against United States ships on the high seas in the Gulf of Tonkin have today required me to order the military forces of the United States to take action in reply.
Walt Griffin: …and then, around that time a lot of my classmates that were ahead me – a couple of years – were going into the service and they were going to Vietnam.
Chuck Ward: I was in high school, I went to a private Catholic High School in East St Lewis, Illinois.
Kent C. Williamson: Here’s Chuck Ward…
Chuck Ward: I was a sophomore in high school. The school year was over and I had a D average. On the first day of school, the next term – which was September, my junior year. A priest by the name of Father Barry Jones brought together the dozen or so students that weren’t doing very well in school. And he sat us down and told us how important it was to improve our grades and all this because there was this thing called the Vietnam War. And already, some of the classmates from that high school had come home – killed in that war. And this was 1965. That’s how I learned about the Vietnam War.
Kent C. Williamson: So did you enlist? Did you get drafted? Tell us that part of the story, but first…
BREAK — Kent C. Williamson: We would love to hear some of your stories about the first time you learned about the Vietnam war or even about your first day in Vietnam. What was your experience like? We might even share some of these on the show. Record your story, we’d love to hear you tell it, or if you prefer typing… go for it. Either way, send it to me at Kent at By War AND By God dot com that’s Kent… K E N T at By War AND By God dot com. I’ll look forward to learning about your experiences.
Kent C. Williamson: So did you enlist? Did you get drafted? Tell us that part of the story…
Chuck Ward: I had graduated from that high school and gone to college. But I made the mistake of spending a lot of time at college instead of in college, and I lost my 2-S deferment that May. And I was on academic probation, but I was allowed to come back in September, so May to September – no big deal. Well, it turned out to be a big deal, especially to the US Government. So, my 2-S deferment was taken away, I was reclassified 1A, which meant I was eligible for the draft. And within weeks, I was invited to take a physical. And within a couple of weeks, I took that physical, and I passed that physical. And I was going to be drafted into the armed forces in the July draft call, 1968. My father was army infantry during World War II in the Pacific – was wounded in the Philippines, and he beat into my head growing up, “Son, whatever you do, don’t go into the infantry.” He didn’t want me to go into the infantry or the marines or the army, because he knew what war really was like. I didn’t appreciate that, but he did. Always had an interest in airplanes, aircraft. I didn’t want to join the air force, I really wanted to join the marines, but I just didn’t have the courage to do it. I didn’t think I could hack it, I could make it. So 5 guys from my high school, we all went down to recruiting stations. In those days it was separate recruiting stations, not just one. And all of us that day joined – we volunteered. We joined the marines, the army and the navy. And two of us joined the Navy, I was one of them. Three joined the marines and one joined the army.
Archival Footage – Navy Commercial: The United States Navy… Today’s Navy… It may have a place for you!
Cal Dunham: I was in high school, and it was beginning to ramp up in 1965…
Kent C. Williamson: Cal Dunham tells of his experience…
Cal Dunham: …and then in 1967, I found myself with the set of papers that said I was now going to be joining the army. And Vietnam was very much into the news, and by 1968 I found myself in Vietnam.
SEGUE — Kent C. Williamson: There’s a big difference between learning about Vietnam or learning about a war there and actually going to Vietnam to participate in that war. The Vietcong and the North Vietnamese Army (the communists) were attempting to takeover South Vietnam and American forces were sent to try and stop the spread of communism. But what is it like to arrive in a country you’ve only heard about to fight war over conflicting ideological principles. Most of these guys were 18 or 19 years old when they were swept out of bootcamp and landed in Vietnam… Toto… we’re not in Kansas anymore.
Bob Peragallo: My name is Bob Peragallo, I was a Sargent E5 while I was in Vietnam with the US Marines, my serial number is 2095587. My first day in Vietnam. I went over to Vietnam by ship, and I was a replacement to the original marines that landed that I read about when I was in Quantico, Virginia. And we landed, had to go down the side of the ship in nets, loaded onto the landing craft, and actually went ashore on the beach. And then we loaded on trucks, and they drove us to the Da Nang air base. And from there they processed us and sent us out to marine units. And I was assigned to the first battalion ninth marines. And that night we were at the base at Marble Mountain, and they issued me a rifle that I’d never fired, they issued me all of my 782 gear…
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: 782 gear – also called “deuce” gear included a pack, a canteen, a poncho, an ammo pouch, etc. that marines used when in the field. The number 782 refers to the Department of Defense form number signed when the gear was issued.
Bob Peragallo: …they issued me all of my 782 gear. And that night I went on my first real live combat ambush. And my experience – to sum it all up was I was completely dazed and confused, but I survived.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell us about that first mission…
Bob Peragallo: Well my MOS was a machine gunner…
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: MOS means Military Occupational Specialty… it’s a system for categorizing career fields in the marines.
Bob Peragallo: My MOS was a machine gunner, and they seem to have had enough of those. So I was the new guy so they made me what is called tail end Charlie. So I was the last guy in the column. And as far as I was concerned my concept was that we were gonna be shot at immediately. Had no idea what was going on, I had no orientation, the early days of Vietnam we didn’t go through two week orientation to get used to the climate or anything. That night I was on patrol, and all of a sudden I was responsible for the whole security of the patrol, and it was a rude awakening to what happened. We did not make any contact that night, we sat up all night long in an ambush and we’re supposed to sleep for one hour and then be awake for an hour with your buddy and I didn’t sleep at all.
Roger Helle: My name is Roger Helle, Sergeant, US. Marine Corps. Retired, 2146819. My very first day as a marine in Vietnam was kind of interesting. We were on a float battalion and we made some raids up and down the Vietnam coast in what was the upper part of South Vietnam. And it was a few weeks later we came ashore and began building a perimeter around an airfield that the marine corps was building in the northern part of South Vietnam. Probably maybe an hour’s drive, an hour and a half drive from the DMZ…
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: The DMZ was a demilitarized zone that divided North and South Vietnam and was the result of the first Indochina war. The DMZ was over 100 kilometers long, but just a few kilometers wide. Most of it ran just south of the seventeenth parallel from the border of Laos to the South China Sea.
Roger Helle: …an hour’s drive, an hour and a half drive from the DMZ at a place called Phu Bai. And so, we were perimeter security and we began making patrols around the airfield to make sure that the Viet Cong did not mount any kind of attack to stop the building of the airfield.
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: The Vietcong (or VC) were communist guerrillas that fought the South Vietnamese from 1954 to 1975 with the support of the North Vietnamese Army (or NVA). American forces got involved in the 60’s and fought against the VC and the NVA until Saigon, the capital of South Vietnam, fell in April of 1975.
Steve Scott: Steven Scott, United States Marine Corp Corporal 2169769. My first day, they drop you off a plane, they open up the door, it’s a hundred and fifty degrees. You’ve seen that in a million movies. I went through that, and I was immediately rushed up to another plane, put on the C130 and sent North. So it was all a crazy a time. I thought I was gonna get shot right on the first day. But, they sent me to a unit I picked up with a unit, and went out on operation.
Kent C. Williamson: Tell me about that first operation…
Steve Scott: I’ll tell you straight up front that I’m uncomfortable talking about combat experience but… I was with second battalion, seventh marines. The structure of that is four rifle companies, it’s a maneuver battalion. Company Headquarters, Company, and four Rifle Battalions. My job was as a radio operator was with a – they’re called the TACP, tactical air control party. It was this squad of radio operators divided up into teams of three. You carried radios, your job with forward air control team. Your job was to go with one of the rifle companies and use your radios to call in air support. Air strikes, resupply, and Medevacs. So you’re with the infantry doing that. I was right up rushed up to what was Operation Prairie 1…
DROP IN — Kent C. Williamson: Operation Prairie 1 sought to eliminate North Vietnamese forces just south of the DMZ. It lasted from August 3rd, 1966 to January 31st, 1967 and resulted in nearly 1400 enemy soldiers killed and the deaths of 239 Americans.
Steve Scott: What was Operation Prairie 1. And when I got there, and I’m green and I didn’t know what to do. I was pretty well trained on my job, but had never been with a unit in combat. And the platoon sergeant said, “Don’t worry, you’re a new guy, I’m putting you with two experienced guys on the fact team. They’ll take care of you.” So first day walkin’ up the trail we got into it. And there was a lot of firing going on, there were snipers in the trees and all that kind of stuff. And the guy in front of me got shot, the guy behind me got shot. And I’m standing there, the Gunnery Sergeant looks at me and I said, “Okay Gunney, now who’s gonna take care of me?” So I thought that was kind of, you know, Gomer Pyle-ish. And immediately I went to the ground, had a big, heavy radio on my back. And I remember being on my back with my rifle shootin’ up into trees, kickin’ and movin’ along the ground with my rifle and thinking, “This is just – I’m never gonna last thirteen months.” And I looked up and there’s this Gunnery Sergeant looking down at me saying, “Hmmm, where’d you learn how to do that John Wayne?” And I said, “Oh my god, I’m with the wrong crowd. So that’s my experience of my first patrol.
Walt Griffin: Walter Griffin, Corporal, United States Marine Corps. Serial number 2383903. I was assigned to 2nd Battalion, 26 Marines. And we landed in Da Nang, and what hit me first was the humidity, and these smells I’d never smelled before. It’s the way the Vietnamese eat, the way they cook, the way they live, the way they dispose of waste, and all that. And when I got to the center, they said, “You’ve got to go out to the airstrip and catch a helicopter to the USS Valley Forge.” And so, like a good marine I did that and I went out to the strip and there was a helicopter taking off right when I got there, and it was just about dark. But I was put on this little station where the helicopters – where he guy on the ground controls the helicopters and sends people out to the ship. When he said, “Well that was the last helicopter, you stay here.” I go, “Stay here?” He’s, “Yeah here, until morning.” So I’m now on this Da Nang airstrip all by myself, and like a good marine just out of training, I stayed on that airstrip all night. And not knowing anybody, not knowing what to do, and in the middle of the night we had a mortar attack. And so there I am, I was in a bunker and I said “I’m going to die in my first day In Vietnam and nobody’s going to know who I am.” And I lived through the night of course, and next morning I got on a helicopter and went out to the USS Valley Forge.
Chuck Ward: Chuck Ward, petty officer, second class. B549649. My Vietnam experience was a little bit different than the Air Force people, a lot different than the marines or the soldiers. While I went over there 3 times and the only time in country was in Da Nang, which was a relatively safe base. A huge airbase, primarily Air Force, but also Navy and Marines in that area. So my in country experience was limited to that air base. I didn’t go really out into the boonies or anything. I was – most of my time was on an aircraft carrier. I was operations and intelligence, yeoman, maintenance administration. I did some flying over the beach. So my experience was a little different. I think the heat was a big thing. It was really hot out there off the coast of Vietnam on the carrier. Inside the carrier, the first time I went to Vietnam, we didn’t have air conditioning and of course the soldiers and marines didn’t have air conditioning. But being inside that aircraft carrier, no air conditioning – big, huge steel monolith. I mean, it was really hot. And the humidity was brutal, and I used to think – I’d go up on a flight deck to get into the air when a carrier turned into the wind. And I thought about those poor soldiers and marines that were about 15 miles offshore, what they were going through, because I had it a heck of a lot better than they did.
Pat Cameron: Pat Cameron, 3rd Class Corpsman – San Diego, California, Naval Hospital Balboa. That particular night we got in there about 4 in the morning, we had incoming. We had some stuff – we had some shells coming – that were going off. And I had no clue if they were coming to – gonna get us or that – but most of them were far off. It wasn’t like they were coming into us, but I could hear them going off. And then, of course, I woke up the next morning – didn’t sleep very good. And then I started seeing what some of the guys looked like. It was a – I was in another world. I started seeing things, and the Commander took me to the hospital. We got set up. And we had some free time and the Commander took me throughout the hospital and saw some things that to this day bothers me. We went to the areas where they were bringing them in and saw the body bags. I don’t think I’d been around death that much either, until then. Yeah, I think that’s just some of the stuff that -still back in the back of my brain. You’ve asked – this question you’ve asked is an interesting question because I really hadn’t dwelled on that – thinking about the first day I was there. But it was a – it was tough, but when we started working I got I seemed to get better. The first trip, it was a lot to absorb for a 19-year old. But I didn’t do – I wasn’t in foot in the rice patties. But I did lose a lot of – I lost some of my corps buddies that I went to school with. In fact, while I was there the 2nd time I went over – I had lost one 2 weeks prior to me getting there, that was stationed there, that was kind of tough.
CLOSE & CREDITS — Kent C. Williamson: Thanks for listening to this episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Next time we’ll hear about their best (and worst) days in Vietnam. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you won’t miss an episode. You can learn more about the podcast and the film at By War And By God dot com. That’s By War And By God dot com. Also, remember to use the coupon code “podcast” at Big Heaven Cafe dot com to save 5 glorious bucks on your copy of By War & By God. Oh, and if you have Amazon Prime you can watch the film for FREE, yes you hear that right… for free.
You can find me on Facebook. Just search for Kent C. Williamson and while you’re there go ahead and search for By War & By God and follow us. If you’d rather email me, please send your comments to Kent@ByWarAndByGod.com. I’ll look forward to hearing from you.
Special thanks this week to Jennifer Cuddeback, Jacqueline Thornburg, and the Lyndon B. Johnson Library for use of the LBJ soundbites.
The By War & By God Podcast is written and produced by me Kent C. Williamson. Sound Design and Finishing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer for today’s program is Mister Steve Carpenter. The By War & By God theme music was composed by the extremely talented Will Musser.
Special thanks to the Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford. Thanks also to my brother Brad who was the Director of Photography on the film and helped record the interviews you heard in this episode.
Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
By War & by God is produced at the Paladin studio in the amazingly wonderful, beautiful little town of Charlottesville, Virginia.
Oh, and thanks also to our Veterans… those who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
EPISODE 01 – Hearing & Going
PLAYERS: Bob Peragallo, Cal Dunham, Roger Helle, Steve Scott, Walt Griffin, Phil Carney, Pat Cameron, Chuck Ward, and your host, Kent C. Williamson
LINKS:
BigHeavenCafe.com – Save $5 on the the film with coupon code “Podcast”
US Marines vs Vietcong in Vietnam “Contact (Ambush)” 1966 USMC
Lyndon Johnson – Report on the Gulf of Tonkin Incident
00A — Preview
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SUMMARY: The By War & By God Podcast is a companion series to the award-winning documentary film By War & By God. The podcast will allow us to go deeper into the stories than the film allows.
Kent C. Williamson: Hello, I’m Kent Williamson, the director of the film By War & By God and host of the soon-to-be-released By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. How soon? March the 8th.
For those that don’t know, By War & By God tells the story of a group of Vietnam Vets who survived the hell of war and who, since 1989, have been returning to Vietnam to care for some of the poorest of the poor of that beautiful land.
The film was recently nominated for an Emmy. It also won Best of Show at the Docs Without Borders film festival where it took home the Human Spirit Award, Best Direction, Best Editing, and Audience Impact Awards.
The reason we’re creating the By War & By God podcast is to go deeper into the fascinating stories these veterans told us. When we edited the film there was so much good content that didn’t make it into the film. But the podcast is the perfect vehicle for us to share these stories. Some episodes will be topical where these men reflect on their very first day as machine gunners, medics, and kids in Vietnam, or they share the stories of their absolute best… or even their worst days during the war. Other episodes will focus on a single Veterans story… their experiences as soldiers in the war… their return to a nation who didn’t appreciate them… and what led them to go back to Vietnam.
So I hope you’ll join us on March 8th as we launch the podcast. Go ahead and subscribe now so you don’t miss a single episode. If you haven’t seen the film By War & by God yet you can stream it or buy the DVD at a variety of online retailers including Vimeo On Demand and Big Heaven Cafe dot com. That’s Big Heaven Cafe dot com.
To give you a little taste of what the podcast will be like here’s the audio of the first few minutes of the film By War & By God….
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Archival Footage – News Clip: Because of the following CBS News Special Report the program normally seen at this time will not be presented today.
Phil Carney: My first recollection is just watching the news as a kid.
Bob Peragallo: There was a broadcast on the television about Vietnam and that Marines had landed there. And I had no idea that there was such a place called Vietnam.
Pat Cameron: The war was going on but I didn’t really pay a lot of attention to it.
Sandy Sturch: Whatever our purposes were, we were going to go in and do and get out and I wasn’t much concerned about it.
Archival Footage – Marines Commercial: If you think every Marine learns how to handle a rifle. You’re right.
Steve Scott: I grew up reading a lot of Kipling and wanted [laughs] some adventure.
Archival Footage – Marines Commercial: But if you think that’s all he learns, you’re wrong.
Archival Footage – News Clip: With American air support, South Vietnamese troops are still engaged in the endless, weary, bloody business of war.
Walt Griffin: Well, I really didn’t know much about until around ’64, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. And I watched the famous Johnson speech.
Archival Footage – News Clip: The confrontation between Reds and the West was the most critical since the Gulf of Tonkin incident last summer. When the US replied just as swiftly to North Vietnam PT boat attacks.
Sandy Sturch: I wasn’t much concerned about it, until my brother was sent to Vietnam
Cal Dunham: In 1967, I found myself with a set of papers that said I was now going to be joining the army
Steve Scott: I think the first time I heard about Vietnam was in boot camp in the Marine Corps. But the drill instructors inured us to the fact that we’re all going to go to Vietnam.
Roger Helle: And I remember one of the teachers one day, I think in Social Studies, He was – started screaming at me and he said “Some of you are going to end up in a rice paddy in Vietnam!” And you know, as a senior in high school, I thought, you know, “Where’s Vietnam? and why would i want to be in a rice paddy?”
Sandy Sturch: You might go for your first tour and get back ok, but not as many people went for their second tour and came back.
Chuck Ward: On the first day of school the next term, which was September, my Junior year, a priest by the name of Father Barry Jones brought together the dozen or so students that weren’t doing very well in school. And he sat us down and told us how important it was to improve our grades and all this, because there was this thing called the Vietnam War. And already, some of the classmates from that high school had come home, killed in that war.
Archival Footage – Soldier: I mean I can’t say that I’m scared to death, but I’m scared. I mean after a while you know it’s gonna come and you can do nothing about it. And you just look to God. That’s about the only thing you can do.
Cal Durham: We were engaged in fighting
Bob Peragallo: There were about 500 VC that had attacked this 14 man patrol
Cal Dunham: The tree that i had dodged behind was hit with a rocket propelled grenade
Roger Helle: And I was walking point when a grenade was thrown and hit me in the leg and bounced before I could do anything that grenade went off, just lifted me off the ground, ripping me apart
Cal Dunham: Then this explosion, right where I was, knocked me unconscious. And when I woke up all I remembered was hollering for the medic
Phil Carney: I could tell that people were panicked about something and they were pointing back. And I walked deeper into the water, I was real tall and there were children in the river that were being swept away.
Archival Footage – War Report: Our position is threatened. The patrol has been ambushed and is tied down
Bob Peragallo: All of my buddies were in that squad and we lost contact with them.
Archival Footage – News Clip: I had 13 with me when I came.
“It’s 4 days later now and how many are still here?”
“Six.”
“We’re losing to many men, if we stay here much longer, we wouldn’t have much left of this platoon, let alone a company.”
Phil Carney: And nobody could find them. But you could hear them screaming.
Archival Footage – News Clip: There’s dynamite 5-2. I request dust off
Pat Cameron: We had some in-coming helicopters coming in, and we had more body bags, than we had people.
Roger Helle: I was shot twice. Knocked to the ground again.
Cal Dunham: I found myself writhing in pain
Roger Helle: Run through the stomach by a North Vietnamese solider with his bayonet while I was laying on the ground.
Phil Carney: And then about an hour later it was daylight. And we went back to that same area, and waded down in there and ah, and found um, a bunch of these little kids. And they had been swept into the concertina wire. And they had just been like in a blender; just churned up.
Pat Cameron: That was a bad night.
Roger Helle: I knew I was going to die on that field.
Phil Carney: And I can sort of remember just pulling parts of those kids out of that wire. Just trying to get them out of the wire. And just losing it. And… I never, ah –– ah, never got over that.
Pat Cameron: We just hadn’t been around death that much.
Roger Helle: My company of 219 Marines walked in to a 650 man Vietcong ambush.
Bob Peragallo: And they took the brunt of the ambush and were pretty much annihilated. Only 2 survived.
Pat Cameron: I still have visions of that…of the body bags. I even have visions of people moving in the body bags. Death is tough on a young guy.
Archival Footage – Soldier: When youth was a soldier and brought across the sea. We were young in cold hearts, a bloody savagery. Born of indignation, children of our time. We were orphans of creation and dying in our prime.
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Kent C. Williamson: Thanks for listening to this preview episode of the By War & By God Podcast from Paladin Pictures. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you won’t miss an episode. We launch on March the 8th. Learn more about the the podcast and the film at www dot By War And By God dot com. That’s By War And By God dot com.
Paladin Pictures is committed to the creation of redemptive entertainment and thought-provoking cultural critique. Learn more about us at Paladin Pictures dot com. That’s Paladin P-A-L-A-D-I-N Pictures dot com.
The By War & By God Podcast is produced by me Kent C. Williamson with finish editing by Ashby Wratchford. Our Audio Engineer for today’s program is Steve Carpenter. The film By War & By God was edited by James Burgess and the music for the film was composed by Will Musser.
Special thanks to the Paladin Team which includes Leslie Wood, Steve Carpenter, Dan Fellows, Steve Lessick, and Ashby Wratchford and of course our web site guy, who happens to be the Director of Photography on By War & By God, and who also happens to be my brother… Brad Williamson. Thanks!
And of course thank you to our Veterans… this who returned… and especially those who didn’t. Like my wife’s Uncle Floyd. Thank you!
